30 replies to this topic

[Lardo5150]

Backstory on my new scope/mount.

 

My scope showed up before I left on a week long vacation.

I was able to update the firmware with no issues, including the wifi module.

This is just the base CGEM II with the default controller it came with (Nextstar+).

Never used the scope cause I left on vacation.

My Autoguider showed up while on vacation and when I got back, I hooked everything up and went to update the firmware for the autoguider.

The firmware program ran through all connected devices.

I was doing this via the Wifi.

 

It kept telling me it could not update the mount now.

Tried again, same thing.

I hooked it up to my PC via the USB port on the bottom of the controller.  Same thing, could not update the mount......then it could not find the mount at all.

Removed the USB cable, powered up the mount and the hand controller could not find the mount.

Getting errors 16 and 17 No Response.

 

I tried a few different things, but all with the same result.  Dummy me threw away the box.

I worked something out with Adorama, and they sent a new mount.  I am sending the "old" one back.

Hooked everything up, went to update firmware via wifi, everything updated and then got the can't update mount error again.

This is where I stopped cause I dont want a repeat of the first try.

 

When I power up the mount, the HC does find the mount unlike last time, so that is good.

Mount firmware version is 6.50.

HC: is 5.35.3179

 

I will be honest here, I am asking for some step by step hand holding here as I dont want to go through what I just did where the mount becomes completely unrecognized by the wifi and the HC.

I say that cause I did go here:

https://www.nexstars...pgradeHowTo.htm

 

But I am super nervous about hooking up that HC to my PC again, cause last time I did I "killed" the mount.

 

Can someone help me upgrade to 6.51, or help me understand what I am doing wrong and what I actually need to do?

 

Dallas has been nothing but rain, and on top of that I could not use the mount at all cause of what I did, so my point is I still have not even used this thing

 

EDIT:  I forgot to add, when the HC stopped finding the mount, when I would turn it on, the mount would jerk slightly.  Strange.  Figured I blew the board on it or something, which is why I am sending it back.

Edited by Lardo5150, 11 June 2025 - 03:04 PM.

[emflocater]

Curious...was it necessary to update the firmware from the firmware already working with the mount. In other words were the added updates (did you check first) from old to newer firmware something you needed for using the mount. The age old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it. Sometimes installing new firmware on telescope mounts can come with chancy risks!

 

Cheers

Don

Edited by emflocater, 11 June 2025 - 03:44 PM.

[Lardo5150]

Curious...was it necessary to update the firmware from the firmware already working with the mount. In other words were the added updates (did you check first) from old to newer firmware something you needed for using the mount. The age old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it. Sometimes installing new firmware on telescope mounts can come with chancy risks!

 

Cheers

Don

Understood.

I just always assumed with any tech, we update the firmware to the latest version.

[mlord]

Can someone help me upgrade to 6.51, or help me understand what I am doing wrong and what I actually need to do?

Celestron are trying to make CFM work for everything, including the older mounts.

But that's not 100% there right now, especially for the older mounts!

 

So, you can instead use MCUPDATE.EXE via the hand-controller USB connection.

However, current Nexstar+ firmware is not compatible with MCUPDATE.EXE.

 

So.. you'll have to first downgrade the hand-controller firmware to an older version that does work.

See here:  https://www.cloudyni.../#entry14036922

 

Cheers

[mlord]

Note that the existing v6.50 firmware IS BROKEN, which is why there's a newer version available.

See here for differences:  https://www.nexstars...GEMFirmware.htm

 

"6.51 - Fixed a bug introduced in 6.50 that broke PECTool.  Fixed a bug where the final approach didn't finish and the mount slewed past target."

[Lardo5150]

Celestron are trying to make CFM work for everything, including the older mounts.

But that's not 100% there right now, especially for the older mounts!

 

So, you can instead use MCUPDATE.EXE via the hand-controller USB connection.

However, current Nexstar+ firmware is not compatible with MCUPDATE.EXE.

 

So.. you'll have to first downgrade the hand-controller firmware to an older version that does work.

See here:  https://www.cloudyni.../#entry14036922

 

Cheers

Is this the only way?

No way to do it with Wifi (does the wifi even work with MCUPDATE) or maybe a cable straight from the mount to USB like the USB to RJ9 cable?

[Lardo5150]

So I tried to downgrade the firmware.  No go.

I followed these exactly.

https://www.nexstars...xStarGPSFix.htm

Kept the mount turned off.

Plugged the cable into the HC

Fired up CFM.

Its the bootloader file.  Looks like the version from the downgrade is 1 something and my HC has 4.

I would click on that message about 4 or 5 times, then it would finally go away, and CFM would say not udated.

Pics attached.

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by Lardo5150, 11 June 2025 - 06:04 PM.

[mlord]

No way to do it with Wifi (does the wifi even work with MCUPDATE) or maybe a cable straight from the mount to USB like the USB to RJ9 cable?

Never use WiFi for mount firmware updates -- it's just been too fraught with errors of late.  And no, MCUPDATE does NOT work with WiFi.

 

If your mount has a port labelled as "PC Port", then yes, you could run MCUPDATE straight to that port, with the correct cable assembly.  But this is not possible via any other type of port, other than "PC Port".

 

 

[mlord]

Kept the mount turned off.

Plugged the cable into the HC

Fired up CFM.

Its the bootloader file.  Looks like the version from the downgrade is 1 something and my HC has 4.

I would click on that message about 4 or 5 times, then it would finally go away, and CFM would say not udated.

The Nexstar+ can be powered solely from USB. The older instructions you found are out-of-date for a modern HC.

 

Disconnect the HC from the mount.  Then you don't need to be concerned about "Kept the mount turned off", and this guarantees you won't mess up and allow CFM to try and corrupt the mount. 

 

Uninstall CFM, and completely delete any mouse droppings it may leave behind.  Disconnect your computer from the internet -- disable WiFi, unplug the network cable.  Now re-install (the old version of) CFM and run it while disconnected from the internet.  There's even a menu option there under "Options" for "Work Offline" -- select that option.  This prevents CFM from replacing the older firmware from the .ZIP file with the latest/greatest from Celestron, which would defeat the entire exercise.

 

Try again.

Edited by mlord, 11 June 2025 - 08:12 PM.

[Lardo5150]

older version worked...BUUUUT I bricked the HC.

Wont even light up now.

 

Just ordered a new one from Amazon.

Once it shows up will update the mount FIRST, then the HC.

 

Will report back when done.

[mlord]

older version worked...BUUUUT I bricked the HC.

Wont even light up now.

That means your HC was "too new" for the old HC bootloader that got installed.  I have heard this could happen, but never actually encountered it before.

 

If you send me your HC, I'll fix it and return it to you.  We can share shipping.  Message me.

If you also send me the main PCB from the CGEM, I will flash it with the latest firmware too.

 

Cheers

Edited by mlord, 12 June 2025 - 07:25 AM.

[Lardo5150]

That means your HC was "too new" for the old bootloader that got installed.  I have heard this could happen, but never actually encountered it before.

 

If you send me your HC, I'll fix it and return it to you.  We can share shipping.  Message me.

If you also send me the main PCB from the CGEM, I will flash it with the latest firmware too.

 

Cheers

I should be able to flash the mount with the new HC though correct?  It will have an older firmware version?

[mlord]

I should be able to flash the mount with the new HC though correct?  It will have an older firmware version?

Highly unlikely that a brand-new HC will arrive with 4-5 year-old firmware.  More likely with 1-2 year-old firmware.  And with more "too new" hardware inside.

[Lardo5150]

How does Celestron expect us to update the firmware on the mount?  This is wild.

Maybe I find an old controller on eBay?

I really don't want to take this brand new mount apart and send the board to you or contact Celestron and end up having to send the entire thing in just to update firmware.  

This just seems wild.  

Any other options?

[mlord]

How does Celestron expect us to update the firmware on the mount?

They expect us to use CFM, and are actively working on making that possible.

FWIW, I have passed along a note to them that it failed for the CGEM.

 

Do you know which exact version of CFM you originally tried, from your first post here?  https://www.cloudyni.../#entry14178661

[emflocater]

That means your HC was "too new" for the old HC bootloader that got installed.  I have heard this could happen, but never actually encountered it before.

 

If you send me your HC, I'll fix it and return it to you.  We can share shipping.  Message me.

If you also send me the main PCB from the CGEM, I will flash it with the latest firmware too.

 

Cheers

Wow! What wonderful kind person mlord you are! Wish more Folks had your kind giving heart to helping others.

 

Cheers

Don

[mlord]

...

I hooked it up to my PC via the USB port on the bottom of the controller.  Same thing, could not update the mount......then it could not find the mount at all.

Removed the USB cable, powered up the mount and the hand controller could not find the mount.

Getting errors 16 and 17 No Response.

I am told that the "Error 16/17" by itself, should not be an impediment to running CFM to try again. Those errors are from the "APPlication" firmware of the HC, and CFM only needs the BOOTloader firmware for updates.

 

But if the mount (MC) firmware is already toast, then CFM may fail at that stage (or not?  -- MCUPDATE seems to succeed even when the original MC firmware is toast).
 

I am working on obtaining a PCB from an older mount here, with PICs for the MCs, so that I can try out a bunch of these scenarios and figure things out.  But that's a longer term endeavour.

Edited by mlord, 12 June 2025 - 07:45 AM.

[Lardo5150]

They expect us to use CFM, and are actively working on making that possible.

FWIW, I have passed along a note to them that it failed for the CGEM.

 

Do you know which exact version of CFM you originally tried, from your first post here?  https://www.cloudyni.../#entry14178661

It was straight from their website, so I assume the latest and greatest.

[mlord]

It was straight from their website, so I assume the latest and greatest.

I need the version number.

There are several "latest from the website" versions, unfortunately.

[mlord]

Any other options?

Not so much for you there, but the other guaranteed option for updating a CGEM, or any other older mount with two PIC chips for the MCs, is to use a T48 in-circuit flash programming device.  The CGEM firmware files (CGEM_DEC_APP_6.51.0651.cfm and CGEM_RA_APP_6.51.0651.cfm) are in a format that is understood by the software for the T48.  So it can load the files, and write them directly to each of the two PIC chips.

 

This is my own fallback here, when all else may fail.  The same T48 device also works for the Nexstar+ hand-controllers, but not for the fancier StarSense hand-controllers -- those need an Olimex ARM-USB-OCD JTAG probe, same as for the Evolution mounts.

Edited by mlord, 12 June 2025 - 08:00 AM.

[Lardo5150]

I need the version number.

There are several "latest from the website" versions, unfortunately.

bah, I suck.  I can't find it now cause when you said wipe it all, I did LOL.

Sorry man.

What are you thinking here?  Maybe try a different version?

[mlord]

What are you thinking here?  Maybe try a different version?

Just wanting to provide accurate information to people who might be able to fix the issues.
 

[Lardo5150]

Just wanting to provide accurate information to people who might be able to fix the issues.
 

I was thinking of canceling that order from Amazon, but figured I would get it and see what version is on it. 

 

Maybe will get lucky, I will ping back here tomorrow when it shows up and I will provide what version is on it whenit shows up.

 

Thanks for helping man, I REALLY appreciate it.

 

Would it be beneficial to open a ticket with Celestron?  I keep thinking if I do that, they are going to have me send it in

[mlord]

Would it be beneficial to open a ticket with Celestron?  I keep thinking if I do that, they are going to have me send it in

They would want you to send EVERYTHING to them.  In a month or so, they should send it all back to you again, firmware updated if that's what you request.

 

Only open a ticket if that's what you want to do.  Otherwise you are just wasting their time, as well as your time.

[Lardo5150]

They would want you to send EVERYTHING to them.  In a month or so, they should send it all back to you again, firmware updated if that's what you request.

 

Only open a ticket if that's what you want to do.  Otherwise you are just wasting their time, as well as your time.

Ya no.  Would just rather wait till they fix the CFM thing or I can find an old **** HC on ebay or something.

I have not even had a chance to use this thing due to the issue I had and now constant rain in Dallas.  Supposed to be nice next week and I REALLY want to get this out!

So will live with this firmware for now, but will keep searching for ways to get it upgraded.

 

I may just send the board to you if you can upgrade it, still considering that