19 replies to this topic

[SoCalPaul]

My logging tool has been SkyTools 4, but I am trying out the SkySafari Pro 7 observation log on my Android tablet.

 

Seeing was good here a few nights ago, so I went on a tight doubles hunt with my 5" refractor with separations from 1.4" down to 0.7", according to SSP7.

 

Of course, I was not able to split them all.

 

Likewise, I am not always successful with deep sky observations as well.

 

Keeping a record not just of successful observations, but also failed attempts, seems like it could be highly valuable. Unfortunately, neither ST4 or SSP7 seem to have this functionality. Maybe a simple checkbox on the observation log page, "failed attempt" or similar?

 

This way, we could list out all our attempts at a particular object and see 1) did any succeed and 2) what seemed to be the critical factors- aperture? Transparency? Seeing? Alcohol consumption?

 

And of course the failed attempts would not be recorded as "object observed".

 

I am interested to hear if any of you record your unsuccessful attempts or think this might be useful? Or maybe the functionality already exists, and I am just not aware of it?

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[gnowellsct]

It would give you a sense of correlation between nights when the sky is nominally clear versus steady enough to split close doubles.

Probably the most useful thing is to keep track of how often it is too cloudy to observe. Make sure you include fire smoke That's not going away anytime soon.

Greg N

[therealdmt]

When I write up a session, I write down all my progress or lack thereof with all my targets that I can remember. However, I don’t use any form or logging tool, etc. I just write prose, like a journal. I guess I keep an observing journal more than an observing log. But anyway, I very much include my struggles and failures as those are very much part of the story.

 

I don’t typically write up low effort sessions where I’m just going through targets by memory, without consultation to charts or an app needed.  For one of those sessions, maybe the only memorable thing would be a failure (or, alternatively, a truly exceptional view)

[Astrojensen]

 

And of course the failed attempts would not be recorded as "object observed".

 

Why not? You DID observe the object. You might not have split the double in question, but that in itself is also a valuable observation. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

[djbridges]

Seems like a spreadsheet or simple database would allow you to create a custom observing log that includes/excludes everything you might want.

Maybe not as slick as an app, but much more flexible.

[SoCalPaul]

Why not? You DID observe the object. You might not have split the double in question, but that in itself is also a valuable observation. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

For things like AL certificates, this would not be accepted.

 

And it's not the same case for DSOs, where I sometimes can't even catch the slightest glimpse. In those cases, I would not want to consider that a successful observation.

 

Paul

[SoCalPaul]

Seems like a spreadsheet or simple database would allow you to create a custom observing log that includes/excludes everything you might want.

Maybe not as slick as an app, but much more flexible.

Could be, but the beauty of SSP is that I can work from a single, integrated app- create an observing list, select an object, see it on the sky chart, navigate to the object (whether star-hopping or goto), record the observation.

 

Seems like it would be a relatively simple addition for them to add a checkbox for "failed observation" with all the benefits that would provide?

 

Paul

[Jon Isaacs]

I log my observations in SkySafari as well as keeping a diary which I write at the end of the evening. I have my multiple observing lists, mostly of logged observations. 

 

Occasionally I will note in the diary of a failed observing attempt, these are mostly difficult DSOs so no observation has been made.

 

If I wanted to log failed splits, I would start an observing list titled "failed splits 2025" and describe my attempt etc and log it there.

 

Jon

[12BH7]

Back when I was using a star atlas I used to put a check on a galaxy I logged and a mark on a galaxy that I couldn't find. 

 

When I was doing written logs, pre home computer, I would log in a night and below a list of what I tried but failed to find.

 

When I started using a computer I sort of gave up on that. For no other reason than I didn't want to do it any more. 

Edited by 12BH7, 12 June 2025 - 02:58 PM.

[Jay_Reynolds_Freeman]

Keeping good notes about unsuccessful observations can be useful. I recall one incident several decades ago when I was attempting to observe a difficult deep-sky object, the dwarf galaxy Leo II. I thought I detected a faint smudge at approximately the correct position, and made a rough sketch in my logbook, showing several field stars to define the location. I then located the field-star pattern in a deep star atlas, and plotted the position of Leo II on the same page -- but it was not where my sketch showed it, so I wrote down that the observation was an error, wishful thinking or something similar.

 

Years later, I happened to review that observation and noticed that I had made an error in precessing the position of Leo II (by hand) when I plotted it on the chart. I corrected the error, and found that the position shown in my sketch was dead on. Thus I ended up recording Leo II as seen fully five years after I had observed it.

 

 

Clear sky ...

[12BH7]

I do log "maybe's" on the my computer log.  This way I have a way of knowing which objects to recheck or confirmation later on.

 

But the ones that I flat out didn't see I do log in on my written notes. Usually in some sort of list format.  However, I don't bother transferring them to my computer notes.

 

Soooo, since I use my written notes at scope side, I guess that is the best place for them for reference. 

[Tony Flanders]

Being a computer programmer, I wrote my own observation-logging software, and still use it today. It allows me to classify observations as no, maybe, and more, as well as the default, which is yes, I observed it.

No means that I tried and definitely failed. Maybe covers a big range where I'm not 100% sure about the observation. And more means yes, I definitely observed it, but I felt rushed, or felt that I may have missed something, so I want to go back and repeat the observation later.

The "no" observations are every bit as important as the yeses when compiling a list like the one for my Urban/Suburban Messier Guide.

[SoCalPaul]

Being a computer programmer, I wrote my own observation-logging software, and still use it today. It allows me to classify observations as no, maybe, and more, as well as the default, which is yes, I observed it.

No means that I tried and definitely failed. Maybe covers a big range where I'm not 100% sure about the observation. And more means yes, I definitely observed it, but I felt rushed, or felt that I may have missed something, so I want to go back and repeat the observation later.

The "no" observations are every bit as important as the yeses when compiling a list like the one for my Urban/Suburban Messier Guide.

Thanks, Tony. This is what I had in mind. I like your success categorization, too.

 

I understand the well-intentioned suggestions further above, but the point was to have a one-stop, computer-based log with all the benefits that provides wrt sorting, filtering, reporting, collecting, analyzing, etc.

 

Any thoughts on making your software commercially available? :-)

 

Nice plug for your guide, too. Definitely a worthwhile read, I highly recommend it.

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[WillR]

My logging tool has been SkyTools 4, but I am trying out the SkySafari Pro 7 observation log on my Android tablet.

 

Seeing was good here a few nights ago, so I went on a tight doubles hunt with my 5" refractor with separations from 1.4" down to 0.7", according to SSP7.

 

Of course, I was not able to split them all.

 

Likewise, I am not always successful with deep sky observations as well.

 

Keeping a record not just of successful observations, but also failed attempts, seems like it could be highly valuable. Unfortunately, neither ST4 or SSP7 seem to have this functionality. Maybe a simple checkbox on the observation log page, "failed attempt" or similar?

 

This way, we could list out all our attempts at a particular object and see 1) did any succeed and 2) what seemed to be the critical factors- aperture? Transparency? Seeing? Alcohol consumption?

 

And of course the failed attempts would not be recorded as "object observed".

 

I am interested to hear if any of you record your unsuccessful attempts or think this might be useful? Or maybe the functionality already exists, and I am just not aware of it?

 

Clear skies,

Paul

I keep a journal, and they go in there. I then transfer the journal entries into a spreadsheet, but the failed observations don’t make it in. So not easy to find them, because I would have to wade through hundreds or more likely thousands of pages of journal entries.

[Airship]

I keep a very simple notebook during each of my observing sessions. Nothing fancy, just a list of each object, the eyepieces that I used (an adjacent table lists focal lengths, magnifications, and exit pupils), and a few short comments. So, yes, I record my successes and misses when observing, including splitting double and triple stars.

[BrentKnight]

SkyTools 4 does allow you to set the Observation Status.  If the status was that you didn't make the observation that you wanted, you can chose the status as re-observe or not yet-observed.  The program will still collect your log with any information about conditions or circumstances you wish.

 

When you go to export the list for your AL project, you only export those observation where the status is Observed.

 

[SoCalPaul]

SkyTools 4 does allow you to set the Observation Status.  If the status was that you didn't make the observation that you wanted, you can chose the status as re-observe or not yet-observed.  The program will still collect your log with any information about conditions or circumstances you wish.

 

When you go to export the list for your AL project, you only export those observation where the status is Observed.

 

Nice, thanks for alerting me to this, Brent! Seems like it will accomplish what I hoped for.

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[moefuzz]

 

I am interested to hear if any of you record your unsuccessful attempts or think this might be useful? Or maybe the functionality already exists, and I am just not aware of it?

 

Clear skies,

Paul

Anecdotally speaking,

 

When my Grandfather passed away in the mid 60's, he had spent his adult life on the same prairie farm that they homesteaded into in the late 1880's after having moved west from Washington D.C. area. (grandma was courted by Teddy Roosevelt in the 1870's while living in N.Y.)

 

For about 1890 up he kept an accurate 'log' of temperatures, wind, sun and snow, along with the odd farming note marked neatly on the squares of every calendar that he ever had.

After he passed and Grandma was moved into an old folks home, the farmstead became empty as most of the furniture and belongings were handed down to relatives.

 

About the only thing that nobody wanted was the huge stack of neatly folded calendars with all the dates and pretty pictures from the local gas station and hardware store that Grandad had gotten them from.

It was a fantastic piece of history not just in calendar pics and the variety but in Grandad's accurate and reliable entries and odd ball farm notes.

 

In about 1980 someone broke the lock on the empty farmstead door and swiped the stack of calendars.

I tend to think that I was about the only one that truly felt the loss as it was a part of our history, and something that can never be replaced.

 

 

Paul,

-If it were my decision, I would keep an accurate log of dates whether you were able to view or not. Think of it like learning to sketch or paint versus all the years of thinking "Man I wish I would have kept up with my art way back then"

And when all is said and done the history you leave behind will still be treasured by someone no matter what the context is.

 

One thing you might consider is some kind of mental note to yourself in the form of colour coding key nights when you did actually view versus nights with no viewing as that will help make it easier to separate colour keyed viewing data from non viewing data   if and when you're searching back to find that one special night in June of 2025.

Perhaps self adhesive stars (like the ones the teachers used to use in school) or small 1/4" coloured round sticky Avery labels/dots that you can find in the 1000 lot at most any walmart's stationary department for a few dollars...

 

Just some random thoughts,

Happy viewing

moe

 

 

Edited by moefuzz, 15 June 2025 - 02:02 PM.

[Takuan]

Yes, I also note down failed attempts. And when I write a CN observation report, I definitely mention them. Especially in case there's a novice reading; sometimes it can seem like everything is a success and goals met in the hobby. And of course, no.

Edit: I record failed attempts in the same observation report as successful ones. I make no distinction. A session report. And with non-observational anecdotes included.

Edited by Takuan, 15 June 2025 - 02:10 PM.

[Headshot]

Definitely keep a record of ALL your observations. If some other event occurs roughly around the time of your observation session (like the brightening of a new nova/supernova) and you didn't note a "new" star, it at least puts a lower limit on the nova's brightness. (I know I could have worded that better!)