154 replies to this topic

[rgoode57]

I am a 75 year old newcomer to astronomy. After reading A Brief History of Time and Coming of Age in the Milky Way, I decided to do my own star gazing. Basically, my intention is to star gaze for entertainment and to occasionally expose the grandkids to the stars. At my age, I figure I have five to eight good years and will then pass the telescope along to whichever grandchild shows interest. Before buying a scope, I have a few basic questions.

 

After doing a bunch of online research, I think I will buy a Dob - either the Apertura AD8 , or the Celestron Star Sense Explorer 8, or the Celestron NextStar 8 SE. Budget is not really an issue, but I am reluctant to spend more than $1,500 on the scope, eyepieces, etc. I would appreciate any comments about the comparative effectiveness of these three scopes. I do not have backyard viewing opportunities because of surrounding large trees and streetlights. Therefore, I will have to drive to a viewing spot, which will only be a fifteen or twenty minute drive. My intent is to simply set the scope up near my car. I do not intend to carry anything very far.

 

I am intrigued by the Celestron Star Sense technology, but I also see reports that 1) it is not reliable; and 2) eats batteries and therefore really needs a power source. I do not want to be viewing thru my phone but am intrigued with the ability to find an object and then use the technology to line my scope up in the crosshairs. Can this Celestron technology be purchased separately to use with a scope of another brand? I see no indication of that. I have also looked into Sky Safai and Sky Guide apps. They look intriguing but I would appreciate any comments on how effective they really are.

 

Finally, should I be looking at scopes other than Dobs? This is the only telescope I will ever buy. I am not trying to get Webb Space Telescope views - just good planetary and star viewing. 

 

Thanks very much for any comments.

[Don W]

I have several Celestron SE models and have been using them for 20 years or more. Most problems I have heard had more to do with user error and not the mounts themselves.

 

 I too am 75 and have been downsizing to my Celestron 8” SCT for most of my observing. It’s a very manageable size and weight and is big enough to give very good views. 
 

Oddly enough, I started this journey with a C-8 in 1981. So you could say I’ve come full circle.

 

DonW

[Marcus1]

Started at 72, slinging a C8 onto a mount is still manageable even though its weight has increased to 20# with all the dodahs rapidly collected. I would look at portability and ease of setup. Don’t count on grandchildren being impressed especially since the views on SkySafari and other apps are much more accessible, and allow for infinite zooming. Get it for yourself, after all you are a survivor.
When we visit a new place we like to bring home photos to remind us of the adventure, ask yourself whether that’s important, if so it will greatly help in your selection process.

Edited by Marcus1, 15 June 2025 - 12:39 PM.

[sevenofnine]

Welcome to C/N! 

 

Manual Dobsonian reflectors are the most aperture per dollar spent. That is one reason they are so often recommended to beginners. If you are the kind of person that likes to "do it myself" then it's a great choice in either the 8" or 10" size. The 8" is a little more manageable especially for those with physical limitations but the 10" will give you a little brighter image at a cost in added weight. Both types have their fans on this forum. If you're a little unsure if this is the right type of scope for you then I suggest doing a little more reading before you push the buy button. A great book that will help you sort it all out is "The Backyard Astronomer's Guide 4th ed.". It covers all of the latest equipment and accessories plus some basic astronomy. Good luck with your decisions! 

 

https://www.amazon.c...,aps,300&sr=8-1.

[vtornado]

I am intrigued by the Celestron Star Sense technology, but I also see reports that 1) it is not reliable; and 2) eats batteries and therefore really needs a power source. I do not want to be viewing thru my phone but am intrigued with the ability to find an object and then use the technology to line my scope up in the crosshairs. Can this Celestron technology be purchased separately to use with a scope of another brand? I see no indication of that. I have also looked into Sky Safai and Sky Guide apps. They look intriguing but I would appreciate any comments on how effective they really are.

 

Are you asking about the Star Sense Explorer technology?  The one where it uses a cell phone and doc?

 

 I have the starsense explorer doc that I harvested from a garage-sale 80mm LT80 AZ.  Here are my observations so far ...  this is NOT complete but a work in progress.

 

As noted, i purchased my SSE unit used to save money, and test the technology.   If you go this route, there is a download code that can only be used 5x times.  Make sure there are still codes left.  There is evidence that if you call celestron they will give yoiu more codes.  You have to prove you own the scope, and I don't know what are the requirements.  Reciepts, picture, retail box???

 

On this site and others there are adapters to mount the SSE dock to different scopes.  Some have magnets that can stick to a dob.  Others have a vixen finder foot that can slide into a vixen finder saddle.  Usually these are made by small vendors with 3D technology.  I have both a magnetic doc and a vixen shoe doc.

 

I live in bortle 8.  I also suffer from local sources like yard lights, and hazy skies that reduce transparancy.   Sometimes the SSE doc says it can't align itself.  I'm unsure what the cause is.  Sometimes it works.   To do a more indept study, I might like to move the scope to a place where there is no locals sources,  check atmospheric transparency, build a light shroud to cut down on ambient light entering the system.   I have not done this as of yet.

 

I am currently using a $100 android phone.   I'm not rich enough to own different phones to test, maybe camera sensivity is different for different phones and changes how well skysense works.

 

Not all phones are compatible.  Check you phone before you decide to purchase the SSE.  If you are like me you would be unwilling to buy a better phone just to run SSE.

 

As far as battery power, yes it does consume a lot of power, but ... I have not had any trouble with medium length sessions if I start out with my battery at 100%.  Before I go out, I make sure my phone is charged.   I suppose this could be affected by the type of your phone.  If you have a problem a low cost power stick and usb cable could solve this.

 

I have had some success with Astro-Hopper.   Astro-Hopper has you align with a bright star, then it directs you to push the telescope to your target based upon gyroscope and accelerometer.  Once again not all phones are compatible.  This is a free solution.  You could buy the scope and try it for no cost. 

 

There is also the low tech solution of a magnetic digital angle and paper setting circle.  I have found many objects using this.   The cost is about $50.

Edited by vtornado, 15 June 2025 - 02:48 PM.

[ChristianG]

First: Welcome to this forum!

 

Second: There is no such thing as a dumb question. 
 

Smart thing to ask first, then spend money! You seem to be heading in the right direction. Cheers!

 

--Christian

Edited by ChristianG, 15 June 2025 - 02:56 PM.

[Inkie]

All of these would work. You have done some research, and at 75 you know what questions to formulate for problem-solving and then what to do with the information.  

 

All of these will require knowing what is up there, where it is a bit better than roughly, as in you should be able to point with a finger or with a low power green laser (yes, many of us use them for just this purpose), and be within 1/3 of a degree. This requirement, to know the sky beforehand, will be especially important if using a strictly manual Dob, but that kind of scope is so easy to handle and to use, not to mention several hundreds less costly, that it isn't even funny. That is why so many amateurs eventually have a Dob of some description, especially if it has a large mirror, larger than their fine refractor or Cassegrainian type.

 

The StarSense require a phone whose main lens, when it is fully docked, is placed in such a position over the docking station's angled mirror that it will be useful to do plate solving...which is effectively what happens.  However, a dirty mirror, dirty lens on the camera, nearby intrusions of lighting, trees or other obstacles, and certainly heavily light polluted skies, will all conspire cumulatively to work against successful alignment by the StarSense system. Keep that in mind. 

 

The GoTo NexStar systems work well, but they need at the least batteries or a power pack. Celestron sells a smallish powerpack with enough reserves to run my NexStar SLT 127 mm Mak all night long. https://www.celestro...wertank-lithium

 

If you decide on NextStar, your mount must be scrupulously level.  To seconds of arc.  The reason is that the altazimuth version will slew off, at an angle, and it will dip or rise enough that what you're slewing to will be just outside of the field of view.

[dmgriff]

Welcome to CN. I am 76, in now light polluted skies. Things weren't too bad over 25 years ago. 

 

A dob is a good bang for the buck. Instead of the Celestron StarSense you may consider the Pi Finder self-contained plate solving camera/gps push to. Sits in your finder scope shoe bracket. There is a long thread in the equipment forum.

 

Pi Finder webpage, with downloadable pdf files for reading...

https://www.pifinder...bSaabhBGWCLQusS

 

CN thread...

https://www.cloudyni...0#entry14184424

 

I plan on a purchase soon. A "Flat" model, which I believe I will be useable with all my scopes. 

 

Our sponser, Astronomics, has several AstroTech eyepiece series, and a AT2XTB 4 element barlow, that are good performers for the price. If a zoom eyepiece becomes your main option, you may consider a Svbony SV245 8mm-16mm zoom (they are just starting to be available to ship) and a SV215 3mm-8mm planetary zoom (for high power). You may find the AT eyepieces and the two SV zooms perform above their price point. 

 

Again welcome to CN, and good luck in your endeavors....

Edited by dmgriff, 15 June 2025 - 03:45 PM.

[Dave Mitsky]

While it doesn't deal with purchasing or using a telescope directly, you may find some of the information on astronomy, amateur astronomy, and observing presented in my post (#22) at https://www.cloudyni...mers/?p=5184287 useful, rgoode57. There are sections on various books, observing guides, the Moon, the planets, star-hopping, stellar atlases, planispheres, planetarium programs, astronomy apps, deep-sky objects, lists of worthwhile celestial objects to observe, binocular astronomy, urban astronomy, and other related topics.

[Michael Tomich]

I was new to astronomy at age 59. I had an 8" SCT and since then had 3 dobs. I find dobs to be the best bang for the buck for observing. All were GoTo with tracking and that is my preference, though that feature would push you over budget.

 

My opinion is you will likely most enjoy the Celestron StarSense Explorer 8" Dobsonian. The Push To technology using a cell phone works decently. I am not aware of any way to purchase it separately. I do know of someone that liked it well enough to buy the lowest end celestron scope with Starsense so they could use the Starsense on a set of large, high quality binoculars on a tripod. It worked well whe I tried it. As for eating batteries, A $40 Lithium Ion battery should run such equipment all night. 

 

The Aperura 8" will provide an opportunity to observe without electronic aids. Though not for me, many find "star hopping" to locate targets to be a rewarding experience. It can also be frustrationg and will almost certainly minimize the number of objects you will observe during the realistic estimate of years you expect to be stargazing. 

 

Stay away from the cheap kit of 1.25" Celestron plossl's and colored filters. Two or three quality eyepieces would be preferable.

[Dave Mitsky]

The AstroHopper open-source web application that vtornado mentioned works fairly well. 

 

https://artyom-beili...strohopper.html

 

https://artyom-beili....io/manual.html

[rgoode57]

Wow, what great feedback in  short period of time. Thank you so much. I am trending toward the Apertura AD8 but only if I am convinced that Sky Safai, Sky Guide, or some other similar product will assist me in finding sky objects. Any specific feedback on those priducts?

[Starman1]

I am a 75 year old newcomer to astronomy. After reading A Brief History of Time and Coming of Age in the Milky Way, I decided to do my own star gazing. Basically, my intention is to star gaze for entertainment and to occasionally expose the grandkids to the stars. At my age, I figure I have five to eight good years and will then pass the telescope along to whichever grandchild shows interest. Before buying a scope, I have a few basic questions.

 

After doing a bunch of online research, I think I will buy a Dob - either the Apertura AD8 , or the Celestron Star Sense Explorer 8, or the Celestron NextStar 8 SE. Budget is not really an issue, but I am reluctant to spend more than $1,500 on the scope, eyepieces, etc. I would appreciate any comments about the comparative effectiveness of these three scopes. I do not have backyard viewing opportunities because of surrounding large trees and streetlights. Therefore, I will have to drive to a viewing spot, which will only be a fifteen or twenty minute drive. My intent is to simply set the scope up near my car. I do not intend to carry anything very far.

 

I am intrigued by the Celestron Star Sense technology, but I also see reports that 1) it is not reliable; and 2) eats batteries and therefore really needs a power source. I do not want to be viewing thru my phone but am intrigued with the ability to find an object and then use the technology to line my scope up in the crosshairs. Can this Celestron technology be purchased separately to use with a scope of another brand? I see no indication of that. I have also looked into Sky Safai and Sky Guide apps. They look intriguing but I would appreciate any comments on how effective they really are.

 

Finally, should I be looking at scopes other than Dobs? This is the only telescope I will ever buy. I am not trying to get Webb Space Telescope views - just good planetary and star viewing. 

 

Thanks very much for any comments.

Like DonW, I recommend the Nexstar 8SE.

 

It will find every object for you, has a nightly tour on board, and it will be the easiest to carry in the car.

It will require collimation (alignment of the optics) rarely, compared to a Newtonian/Dobsonian scope, which needs it every time you use the scope.

It is also stand-alone and does not require a computer or tablet to go with.  It's on board already.  You needn't look at a screen or figure out how to operate a tablet with thick gloves on.

You will need a few extra accessories, like a chair (eyepiece height also varies less from zenith to horizon on an SCT than a Newtonian/Dobsonian), a red LED flashlight, an external powerpack to drive the scope (on-board batteries don't last long), perhaps a small table, a couple extra eyepieces (maybe an 18-20mm and a 12-13mm to go with the one that comes with the scope), and perhaps a nebula filter to help see those large gas clouds up there.  I also highly recommend advancing your knowledge quickly with "The Backyard Astronomer's Guide" by Dickinson & Dyer--$29.95 on Amazon.  It's pretty much everything you need to know about amateur astronomy in one illustrated book.

 

Dobs are less money, and have some advantages, but maintenance, collimation, and transport of a full-tubed dob are not among those advantages.

The external tablet programs will not help you find objects in the sky unless they are connected to the scope.  Some scopes can do that, but the 8" dob is not among them.

 

Don't get me wrong--I love dobs and I'm on my 3rd one now and it is likely where I will stay until the Long Sleep, but the 8" SCT is a master of transportability not equaled by other scopes of its size.

I owned one for 11 years, and should my 16" get too much to handle as I get older (I'm 3 weeks shy of 74), I'll go back to one without regrets.

 

In truly dark skies (a unicorn, alas, for any city or suburban observer), the 8" can see up to about 15000 objects in the sky, so even if you stuck to only the 1000 brightest (aka "eye candy"), it will take you some time to see that many.

 

DonP

[Jay_Reynolds_Freeman]

You might try joining a local astronomy club -- that way, at its star parties and meetings, you can get some hands-on experience and personal advice about the kinds of items you are considering purchasing, and make a better-informed decision later.

 

Assuming you have space to store the instrument and are physically capable of transporting it and setting it up, it is difficult to go wrong with an 8-inch Dobson as a beginner instrument. An eight-inch Schmidt-Cassegrain will certainly work, but will be more expensive than the Dobson, and may be a bit easier to transport and set up: Its total weight and bulk will not be much different from the Dobson but it breaks down into smaller pieces. 

 

Don't forget an adjustable-height observing chair, to save turning your back into a pretzel as you maneuver to view different objects.

 

I have not used the StarSense stuff, but I have used a rather more expensive but likely more capable alternative, the PiFinder. Google it and consult the forums here for further details.

 

I have SkySafari Pro and find it very useful in planning observations. I tend to use paper charts in the field, though -- along with the plate-solving technology of PiFinder, and with the go-to capability provided by several advanced mounts that I use.

 

 

Clear sky ...

Edited by Jay_Reynolds_Freeman, 15 June 2025 - 04:15 PM.

[Notdarkenough]

Just a point of clarification for future readers, some of the terms in above posts are being used incorrectly. As it looks like this will perhaps become a Dob thread, let me address the SCT issue.

 

Celestron sells SCTs with several types of mounts. The Celestron offerings for Altitude-Azimuth include the SE and the Evolution. Both are very different products, even though they are both single-arm Alt-Az devices. The Evolution has an internal, rechargeable battery, metal drive train, WiFi, and a more stable and capable payload rating. The SE is an older design, plastic drive train, holds less weight and requires external power. The Evo is the replacement for the SE. However, with those upgrades it is heavier and more expensive.

 

NexStar is the navigation system contained in the mount hand controller. This navigation system builds a Pointing Model during a Star Alignment, provides GoTos, and contains a list of known objects for observation. Both the SE and Evo come standard with NexStar. 

 

StarSense is a Celestron branded system that provides a different type of telescope control. There are several StarSense devices that provide different features and capabilities. StarSense Auto Align (SSAA) came first. This was offered as an upgrade to SEs and as part of some stock purchases of Evolutions. It consists of a different hand controller, and a camera that mounts on the OTA. The SSAA system uses the camera to platesolve and automate the Star Alignment process. This system grew to include a StarSense AutoGuide (SSAG) device, which included the automated Star Alignment, and an Auto Guide capability for imaging. The StarSense systems now include StarSense Explorer, which includes a mounting bracket for the user's smartphone, to provide push-to guidance and platesolving using the smartphone camera and cpu.

 

It is important to understand the differences between these commonly misunderstood terms. Each term represents a change in price, weight, capability, and mount compatibility. For a new, visual-only observer, SSAA can be a great way to learn. However, an SSAG would only provide limited added value as the auto guiding would not be needed. Alternatively, an SSAA on an SE using AA batteries would certainly be a power drag, but SEs don't really work well on AA batteries anyway. The SSAA with an Evo works very well. But if you plan on imaging, the SSAA is completely redundant. The StarSense Explorer does work well with some mounts, and is push-to only. It aslo requires a compatible smartphone. 

 

If the OP is truly seeking a tool for visual-only observations, the easiest first choice to make is regarding electronic GoTo, or Push-To navigation. If push-to is enticing, a Dob will provide the least expensive, big aperture, experience. The decision tree then compares size and mobility. If the OP wants an automated GoTo experience, the best entry-level devices include Celestron SCTs. Theat decision tree then compares weight, costs, power requirements.

 

Personally, I recommend prospective buyers get in touch with their local astronomy club. During the set-up portion of Star Parties (more frequent now it is warmer!) one can see firsthand the size, weight, and setup requirements for each telescope type. The reason to go at dusk is there is nothing to see in the sky yet, so astronomers will be more willing to "show and tell" their gear and thoughts. This should make purchasing decisions much easier. 

 

Welcome to CN! 

[SparkyMike2010]

Full disclosure that I’m a newb myself and haven’t used the starsense app, only read what other have said before buying my first scope, but imo the star sense isn’t worth the extra cash (>$250) over the Apertura. Astro hopper works ok and is free. As long as you align astrohopper to a very nearby star and you’ve mounted your phone securely to your telescope so there’s no slop, then your target should be somewhere in the field of view of the low power (30mm) eyepiece.
I don’t own a pi finder myself but the people who do all seem to love them. So to stay under 1500 you could go with the Apertura, get a pi finder (~540) and still have money left for an eyepiece to replace the 9mm plossl it comes with.

Or forego the pifinder and upgrade the 9mm and buy a nice mid power eyepiece and a book such as Turn Left at Orion.

Another consideration may be that in 5 years you don’t want to lift the 8” anymore and want to go smaller like a 6” or 5” tabletop . Everything from your 8” would translate over the the smaller scope.

The best part about Starsense is that the scope comes with a phone mount and ready to go app, no need to figure out how to mount a phone.

Whichever is best form you I guess depends mostly on how much time you want to spend searching for objects and don you want to fiddle with your scope or not. You’ll be happy no matter which you decide though I’m sure.

[Don W]

Wow, Pi finder is only $540.00? 

 

Seriously, how can anyone recommend that to a new user?

 

The Celestron NEXSTAR system is very easy to use but it may require you to learn the names of some bright stars.

[Starman1]

Wow, Pi finder is only $540.00? 

 

Seriously, how can anyone recommend that to a new user?

 

The Celestron NEXSTAR system is very easy to use but it may require you to learn the names of some bright stars.

Which you need to know anyway to figure out what constellations are above the horizon.

I recommend the David Chandler 2-sided planisphere to learn the constellations.

 

To the OP:

There are a ton of free start chart programs online, with limiting magnitudes of 7, 8.5, 9, 9.75, 11, 13, and 16+, so you can pick whichever one you like.

As the limit goes fainter, the number of charts increases, so you might want to start out with the mag.7 atlas here (they've drawn in the stick figures for you):

https://www.cloudyni...ar-charts-r1021

Edited by Starman1, 15 June 2025 - 05:35 PM.

[Don W]

I like to recommend that beginners get a good planisphere like Chandler’s and a decent pair of 7X50 binoculars. Learn the constellations and bright stars first.

[SeattleScott]

An 8” Dob plus PiFinder might still be cheaper than an 8” Nexstar. And you get plate solving for ease of use.

That being said, one could buy an entry level Starsense LX model and adapt it to another scope for half the price, assuming a decent smartphone.

For the Nexstar, if one wants plate solving, get the Starsense Auto Align as it is already a Celestron GoTo scope.

The issue of eating batteries is using AAs in a Nexstar, or other GoTo scope. With Starsense Explorer, the only battery is in your phone.

In my experience Starsense works extremely well as long as you align it with the scope. It somewhat has to, as it is literally looking at the stars it is pointing at. Granted, it has trouble looking through trees, but I have a hard time seeing galaxies through trees anyway.

[DyDyMT]

Aside from all the great product advice above - I just have one point I'd like to make.  Ask yourself a very basic question, do you want a Go-To System, or a Push-To system?  When I began, I didn't even know the difference. ? ! ? 

 

I have both, Dobsonian 8" Explorer w/StarSense - uses cell phone mounted on the scope and you simply push the scope to center on the target - WAY easy, and the best for me, it works if there are some clouds, or not enough stars available for the Go-to scope to 'find itself'. 

 

SCT Nexstar Evolution 8" Edge HD - while this may be more than you want, the guidance system is what I am talking about here.  I have the StarSense Auto align, a mounted camera that aligns for you, and operated by a cell phone or tablet.  This one can be finicky, if there aren't enough stars, or the moon is too bright, or trees in the way when it's aligning.  It is also noisy.  Incredibly, noisy.  If you don't get the auto-align, you'll need to know some basic stars to do the alignment.  

 

No matter what equipment you choose, the option of Go-To or Push-To could be your first step in what you decide on.  Good luck, these knowledgeable folks here will get you going when you decide that first step.  

[dmgriff]

Wow, Pi finder is only $540.00? 

 

Seriously, how can anyone recommend that to a new user?

 

The Celestron NEXSTAR system is very easy to use but it may require you to learn the names of some bright stars.

The  OP had a 1500usd or so target ceiling, with eps.

 

A Celestron 8SE with the SkyPortal WiFi module is 1600usd at B&H, at HighPoint the standard 8SE is 1700usd.

 

A StarSense AutoAlign is 439usd, if one wished to go that route.

 

The Celestron StarSense Explorer 8in dob is 880usd.

 

The Apertura AD8 is 650usd at HighPoint, and a ES FirstLight 8in dob kit with the rings/bearings is 500usd at Woodland Hills.

 

Add the Pi Finder at 540usd for computerized push to and the unit is transportable to other scopes if that happens (and it usually does...).

 

1040usd+ vs 1600usd+

 

All considered, it seems to be a reasonable suggestion....

Edited by dmgriff, 15 June 2025 - 08:19 PM.

[Don W]

I stand corrected!

[Tony Cifani]

I do not have backyard viewing opportunities because of surrounding large trees and streetlights.

Welcome!

I'm a big fan of Dobs. As many have said, you get the most bang for your buck in terms of the aperture. I'm a practitioner of traveling AWAY from bright city lights whenever possible, but this is my front yard observing situation, which is where I tend to set up more often than not. There's not a lot of viewing room here due to the many tall trees, but I have a nice view of the Zenith and the Ecliptic (an imaginary line that roughly describes the path of the sun, moon and the planets). The night sky is bright where I live in city, and the viewing is limited, but I have made the most of it. Last year, I even got the city and power company to agree to installing a light blocking shield on a very bright LED street light. This improves things quite a bit. What can I see from my urban front yard? The moon, the sun (with proper a filter of course), the planets, and many brighter DSO's. And double stars too. Nothing beats a dark wide open rural field for observing, but many nights, I happily make do with my humble front yard.

Good luck!

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[DOBguyinGA]

Good evening everyone,

 

All of the opinions expressed above are intended to help you get started. You need to consider all of the previous posters are experienced, and they probably had other things to do today, but they decided to help you begin your journey into astronomy. I suggest you accept the opinions understanding this.

 

At 75 you may have some physical limitations, or you may suspect they are coming along soon. The best advice I have seen here is to purchase the biggest aperture you will use regularly. I am 71 and have some physical issues. My choice was a 6 inch desktop DOB. It weighs about 19 pounds, it collapses to compress the size, and I store it on top of the dorm style fridge students use in college dorms. I store my beer in the fridge.

 

You also need to consider you will need a set of eye pieces. Any of the scopes you mentioned will need them. They need to be considered if you really desire to keep your initial investment to $1,500. I use a 40 mm EP for target acquisition, and 7 to 21 mm and 3 to 8 mm zooms. Everything totaled does not come to $1,500. I did need to provide myself a table and adjustable chair, which are easily done.

 

Welcome to our pleasant obsession, and may you experience nothing but starry nights.

Edited by DOBguyinGA, 15 June 2025 - 09:09 PM.