154 replies to this topic

[3C286]

Hello

 

Whichever scope you decide to go for, I think you'll enjoy the views and have a wonderful time using it.

 

I can assure you that if you get into amateur astronomy, more scopes will follow so this won't be your only and last scope .

 

If I may add a few more thoughts to all the excellent advice here...

 

Well, I am nearing a decision. I believe I am going to buy either:

 

1. Apertura AD6 dobsonian;

2. Celestron StarSense Explorer 6" dobsonian; or

3. Celestron StarSense Explorer 130AZ (5" )

 

That's the choice.

 

I have somewhat backed off the 8" dobs simply for future considerations of my own aging. Maybe that's a mistake, but I believe the 6" may be more portable and manageable for me as time passes. Feel free to disagree with me because I understand the light gathering advantage of the 8" scope, and price difference between the two is not a consideration.

 

If you can store a Dob in a garage or at ground-floor level, the way to move a Dob around is with a hand truck. It's no effort at all. I never lift the OTA and base together so you want to look at the weight of the individual parts, not the combined weight. The AD6 and AD8 are both the same length and take up as much space in storage.

 

6" and 8" Dobs are readily available for sale used so if you're not sure, you could just get a used one. If you don't like it, you could probably sell it for the same price and get something else that suits you better?

 

For planetary viewing on a non-tracking mount, I find a magnifying finderscope essential because you can easily find it back using your finderscope. The alternative is to change eyepieces back to low power, which is a bit of a pain. Something to be aware of if the StarSense 8" Dob makes it back to your list.

 

Question to others: Doesn't the Celestron SSE 130AZ use Synta's stock 130mm f/5 Newtonian that's got a mirror that's sometimes spherical, sometimes parabolic? Perhaps others with more knowledge can comment?

 

Wow, Pi finder is only $540.00? 

 

Seriously, how can anyone recommend that to a new user?

 

For others reading the this thread in the future:

 

I agree that the PiFinder might not be for the beginner. If you have a 3D printer and a soldering iron, you can assemble one for €290. It's still a lot of money. Cedar e-finder is cheaper to build. You interface to it using your phone & SkySafari.

 

 

Good luck

Tak

[Starman1]

Just browsing online late last night and stumbled across the Apertura 6" classical cassegrain at HP Scientific - $549 for just the scope, plus eyepieces, stand, mount ,etc. I did some reading about the difference in this and an sct, but I will not pretend to understand it well. If I decide to go with the celestron star sense explorer 5", is the Apertura scope a better alternative. It is a much heavier scope (14 lbs) mostly because it is a steel tube instead of aluminum. And, yes, I would have to use astrohopper or something like that. Just interested to hear your thoughts.

Classical Cassegrains (usually Dall-Kirkham design) have longer f/ratios (necessary for correction), poorer edge correction than MCTs, and are longer and heavier then SCTs.

Where they excel is in high quality, high contrast images on axis, making them excellent for planetary viewing if combined with a mount that tracks.

Due to their long focal lengths, they need heavier mounts than SCTs.

 

They are like f/15 refractors--excellent in what they do, but not all-around telescopes for general use.

Given the sizes of scopes being discussed, f/6-f/10 would give greater versatility in use.

F/12, in my opinion, is a compromised focal length for a Classical Cassegrain.  Most are f/15-f/20.  F/12 is about as short as they go, and the star images aren't as good at the edge of the field.

 

If contemplating a Cassegrain telescope for planets and Moon, a Maksutov Cassegrain is a better way to go.

Edited by Starman1, 20 June 2025 - 03:17 PM.

[dmgriff]

Just browsing online late last night and stumbled across the Apertura 6" classical cassegrain at HP Scientific - $549 for just the scope, plus eyepieces, stand, mount ,etc. I did some reading about the difference in this and an sct, but I will not pretend to understand it well. If I decide to go with the celestron star sense explorer 5", is the Apertura scope a better alternative. It is a much heavier scope (14 lbs) mostly because it is a steel tube instead of aluminum. And, yes, I would have to use astrohopper or something like that. Just interested to hear your thoughts.

Here is a ED Ting review of the Apertura (GSO) CC6

 

 https://www.youtube....h?v=Stlw04tsrc8

 

It has some weight to it fully equiped. For alt/az I would suggest a Stellarvue M002c or something even more capable. With a 5/8in  column you can mount the M002c on a surveyors tripod (~100usd).

 

https://www.stellarv...ellarvue-mounts

[rgoode57]

Well, I am making progress. I have decided to go with the dob. Period. No more agonizing over that. And, I have decided to buy an Apertura.  The only thing I am agonizing over no2 is 2hegher to get the 6" (which I was initially inclined toward) or the 8".  Yes, portability is an issue and weight is an issue. And, the 8" is heavier. (At age 75, you agonize over these things.)  But, I am pretty sure I can handle the extra weight, and everything I read basically says to go for the 8". And, fortunately, the extra cost is not a factor. I think either the 6" or the 8" will probably keep me entertained for the rest of my life. So, my last question is pretty straightforward.  Setting aside the fact that the 8" gathers more light, is the 8" a better product than the 6" ? They both have dual speed focus, they both come with two eyepieces (which will eventually get replaced anyway), etc, etc. 

[rgoode57]

Also, one more question: Is the Apertura Performance Enhancement Kit worth buying? I have read contrary opinions on whether or not adjustment screws for the rear mirror should or should not be replaced with their knobs, and this is the only place I have seen flocking paper mentioned.  This sort of feels like something I do not need, but would like your thoughts.

[Notdarkenough]

I think the added effort of the 6 vs the 8 isn't significant. As others have mentioned, moving a Dob by handtruck is a solid plan. As you consider eyepieces and specific packages, two things to consider are the collimation and coma corrector.

 

Most Dob kits come with a collimation eyepiece, and you certainly need one, so just make sure it is included. A comma corrector is a very common accessory,  so maybe some packages have a discounted addition.

 

The other "must have" is an observing chair. There are many threads here comparing the big names like Starbound Observers Chair, Vestil, or DIY plans such as a Denver Chair. 

[Notdarkenough]

Also, one more question: Is the Apertura Performance Enhancement Kit worth buying? I have read contrary opinions on whether or not adjustment screws for the rear mirror should or should not be replaced with their knobs, and this is the only place I have seen flocking paper mentioned.  This sort of feels like something I do not need, but would like your thoughts.

Personally, I'd wait for to buy any enhancement kits or upgrade parts. Get a feel for the rig, and how you want to use it, first. You will then be more comfortable looking at those offerings and turning them down!

 

The most common regret any astronomer feels is from overspending on useless stuff at the beginning. 

[SparkyMike2010]

I bought the Apertura 12” dob this year with the upgrade kit. While the knobs and springs and flocking paper are all very worthwhile upgrades, I would NOT overpay for their kit again. You can get all that stuff way way cheaper at Home Dept and craft stores.
While I’m sure Notdarkenough is way more experienced than I am, I would also hold off on the coma corrector and see if you even notice coma, my guess is you’ll be happy without one, especially if you go with a 6”.

Also, the laser collimator it comes with is worthless unless you want to build a collimation rig for the collimator. I’d suggest you make (or buy) a collimation eyepiece and cheshire collimating eyepiece.

[Starman1]

Well, I am making progress. I have decided to go with the dob. Period. No more agonizing over that. And, I have decided to buy an Apertura.  The only thing I am agonizing over no2 is 2hegher to get the 6" (which I was initially inclined toward) or the 8".  Yes, portability is an issue and weight is an issue. And, the 8" is heavier. (At age 75, you agonize over these things.)  But, I am pretty sure I can handle the extra weight, and everything I read basically says to go for the 8". And, fortunately, the extra cost is not a factor. I think either the 6" or the 8" will probably keep me entertained for the rest of my life. So, my last question is pretty straightforward.  Setting aside the fact that the 8" gathers more light, is the 8" a better product than the 6" ? They both have dual speed focus, they both come with two eyepieces (which will eventually get replaced anyway), etc, etc. 

An 8" gathers 78% more light and reaches a half magnitude deeper.  The number of visible objects (in dark skies) almost triples.

Yes, an 8" could easily be a "lifetime" scope.

Variability in optical quality dictates that individual scopes may or may not be better than another, so it's random chance as to which is better optically.

[Starman1]

Also, one more question: Is the Apertura Performance Enhancement Kit worth buying? I have read contrary opinions on whether or not adjustment screws for the rear mirror should or should not be replaced with their knobs, and this is the only place I have seen flocking paper mentioned.  This sort of feels like something I do not need, but would like your thoughts.

YES.

Collimation will be almost 100% easier and be more stable in use.

Flocking reduces internal reflection inside the tube.  Most people find it makes only a tiny bit of difference.

BUT, adding a light shield that sticks up opposite the focuser helps immensely to improve contrast when the scope is used in brighter skies.

Here is an example of what I mean.  You can easily make one yourself:

https://www.highpoin...ZP-AZ1201&gQT=1

it keeps light from the sky from entering the eyepiece from over the top of the side of the scope opposite the focuser.

Edited by Starman1, 21 June 2025 - 03:19 PM.

[dmgriff]

the 6in f/8 and the 8in f/6 AD dobs are both f=1200 and will have the same magnification. The difference is the aperture and the weight (the AD8 is ~10 lb heavier). 

 

A additional 2x barlow with your included eyepieces will give you a high power lunar/planetary magnification. The Astronomics (CN sponser) AT2XTB 4 element telecentric barlow is a modest 60usd and it will last your needs as long as you use the AD.

 

https://astronomics....AxtgJR4f2Y63QCL

 

A telecentric barlow will also work as a optical corrector for a binoviewer to reach focus with a newtonian, if you ever have a interest in one. BVs give great contrast for lunar/planetary.

Edited by dmgriff, 21 June 2025 - 03:31 PM.

[Starman1]

I think the added effort of the 6 vs the 8 isn't significant. As others have mentioned, moving a Dob by handtruck is a solid plan. As you consider eyepieces and specific packages, two things to consider are the collimation and coma corrector.

 

Most Dob kits come with a collimation eyepiece, and you certainly need one, so just make sure it is included. A coma corrector is a very common accessory, so maybe some packages have a discounted addition.

 

The other "must have" is an observing chair. There are many threads here comparing the big names like Starbound Observers Chair, Vestil, or DIY plans such as a Denver Chair. 

An 8" dob is a short scope.  The eyepiece is barely above waist height when the scope points at the zenith.

I found a drum stool or even sitting on a milk crate to be excellent.

A milk crate has 3 heights depending on which way it's turned, and they're cheap, cheap, cheap.

[Starman1]

I bought the Apertura 12” dob this year with the upgrade kit. While the knobs and springs and flocking paper are all very worthwhile upgrades, I would NOT overpay for their kit again. You can get all that stuff way way cheaper at Home Dept and craft stores.
While I’m sure Notdarkenough is way more experienced than I am, I would also hold off on the coma corrector and see if you even notice coma, my guess is you’ll be happy without one, especially if you go with a 6”.

Also, the laser collimator it comes with is worthless unless you want to build a collimation rig for the collimator. I’d suggest you make (or buy) a collimation eyepiece and cheshire collimating eyepiece.

Very unlikely he'll want a coma corrector for an 8" f/6.

I second the comment about the cheap laser collimator.  An Astrosystems Light Pipe will be good for all the collimation chores and cost <$50.

Edited by Starman1, 21 June 2025 - 03:27 PM.

[rgoode57]

Well, I have finally arrived at a decision. I am going to order an Apertura AD6. I understand that the 8" would give me more viewing opportunity, but the 6" will keep me entertained for a long time. And, at age 75, I want to be careful about the weight and portability, so I am perhaps erring on the side of caution. However, I do want to get the most out of the 6" scope. I plan to get a laser collimator. The Apertura AD6 comes with 1.25" Plossi eyepieces - a 9mm and a 25mm. I understand that these are lower end eyepieces, so I would like some suggestions on two eyepieces I should look at to enhance viewing. Perhaps a 15mm and a 5mm? I am not interested in Mercedes-priced eyepieces, Toyota is good enough for me. Or, do I want to purchase a zoom eyepiece?

[rgoode57]

Suggestions on a good 2x Barlow will also be appreciated.

[Starman1]

Suggestions on a good 2x Barlow will also be appreciated.

Affordable (i.e. not high end) and decent:

1.25"

Celestron Omni 2x

GSO/Apertura 2X

Tele Vue 2X

Masuyama 3-element 2X

2"

GSO ED/Apertura 2X

[rgoode57]

I do wear glasses, so eye relief is an important factor.

[Starman1]

I do wear glasses, so eye relief is an important factor.

So download this and look for at least 18-19mm of eye relief:

https://www.cloudyni...ide/?p=14049961

[SparkyMike2010]

If you wear glasses for astigmatism or something the. You’ll need them at the eyepiece, but if it’s only for near/far sightedness then you won’t need to wear them while viewing . Personally I hate putting on / taking off glasses over and over so that’s also something to consider. Either way. If you’re going to wear eyeglasses at the eyepiece maybe stay away from a Barlow and get eyepieces with large eye relief of various focal lengths

[vintageair]

I hate to toss a monkey wrench into what seems to be a decided matter but for an extra hundred bucks the 8 inch gets you the laser collimator and the 2 inch 30mm 68 deg eyepiece which is one of my favorite things I got with my 10 inch, I use it all the time. I'm pretty sure the 6 inch and the 8 inch use the same base so the only extra weight is the tube.

 

Anyway, something to think about.

 

Also I bought the 2 inch GSO 2x Barlow, works great with the 30mm eyepiece

Edited by vintageair, 21 June 2025 - 06:42 PM.

[vtornado]

The Apertura AD6 comes with 1.25" Plossi eyepieces - a 9mm and a 25mm. I understand that these are lower end eyepieces,The Apertura AD6 comes with 1.25" Plossi eyepieces - a 9mm and a 25mm. I understand that these are lower end eyepieces,

 

A Plossl eyepiece in and f/8 telescope will be fine.   I would use them for a while and decide what magnifications are best for your viewing.  

 

A 2x barlow could be useful that would give you the equivalent of a 4.5mm and 12.5.  4.5 might be to high power.

[rgoode57]

Any thoughts on zoom eyepieces. Seems to be, just from a common sense perspective, that a zoom eyepiece would have to contain more glass and could, therefore, affect the quality of the image.

[dmgriff]

Any thoughts on zoom eyepieces. Seems to be, just from a common sense perspective, that a zoom eyepiece would have to contain more glass and could, therefore, affect the quality of the image.

The field of view on inexpensive zooms increases as the focal length decreases. A narrow ~40 field of view at low power. They can be a inexpensive option. Inexpensive zooms can have some aberrations. Many add a 2x barlow for high power. 

 

To get a wider field and quality you will pay more. The Baader and APM and other high end products for example.

 

Svbony does offer some zooms that are similar to the higher end brands at a lesser price.

 

The SV230, SV245, SV215.

 

SV230 20mm-8mm 57-72 afov

https://www.amazon.c...50604927&sr=8-4

 

SV245 16mm-8mm 63 afov parfocal

https://www.ebay.com..._gaAj99EALw_wcB

 

SV215 8mm-3mm 56 afov parfocal

https://www.amazon.c...1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

The SV230 is out of my price range, too expensive for my useage. I have the SV245 and SV215. They are of good build quality. The SV245 has smooth click rotation. The SV215 has a little stiffer action. They are both excellent for their price point and a bang for the buck. The SV215 is the only competition for the much more expensive Televue 6mm-3mm. 

 

The SV245 and SV215 do not replace my single focal length eyepieces, but, supplement them. For some, adding a ~30mm 2 inch wide field and a 1.25in ~24mm wide field could be a complete set. 30,24,16-8, 8-3mm. or a 2x barlow in lieu of the 8-3mm.

Edited by dmgriff, 22 June 2025 - 10:47 AM.

[JOEinCO]

Another vote with big time Thumbs-Up for the SVBony 3-8mm zoom (if you need those focal lengths).

 

After a few weeks of head-to-head in several scopes, it made me sell my much-pricier Tele Vue 3-6mm Nagler Zoom.

[maniack]

Any thoughts on zoom eyepieces. Seems to be, just from a common sense perspective, that a zoom eyepiece would have to contain more glass and could, therefore, affect the quality of the image.

They are a huge convenience, and I use them all the time except for low power wide field views. I use the Baader 8-24mm 68-48 degree, but the Celestron and it's equivalent (cheapest is Astromania on Amazon) 8-24mm 60-40 degree aren't far behind and are smaller. For my small setups I use the Svbony 7-21mm 57-40 degree version. Then for my fast refractors I use the Svbony 3-8mm for high magnification.