43 replies to this topic

[Universe XY]

Not seen much new & the southern (SE & SW) skies have not been all that welcoming of new exciting things.

 

Noticed Saturn was SE about 4AM. First time I looked for it I couldn't find it but last night I got it!!!!

 

Saturn & the Moon were outside the balcony at 4AM beckoning for me to wake & look upon them.

I've seen the moon many times but it was the first time seeing a planet past Jupiter.

A tiny Saturn with a fine line of rings was visible at 60X.
The rings were titled on a line of about 10 o'clock to 5 o'clock.

Such a thrill to see Saturn & the Moon looked glorious.

 

Have to get the 90mm F7 630mm Raptor out of the SV 80 9D 750mm which I can push up the power to the max.

 

Finally got the SV MC2 on a tripod even though it's the Bogen 3046 w a missing shim I have not addressed yet.\

 

Goodness waking up at 4AM & observing at 5AM... Really is the deep dark art of astronomy. Luckily I am a night owl. 

 

 

[Shorty Barlow]

I remember seeing Saturn well for the first time. I'd seen it earlier with much lower magnifications with the rings mainly just hinted at. I'd acquired a 102mm Maksutov Cassegrain & Saturn was easily naked eye visible. It was fairly low at around 18° not long after transit (not long after midnight). The rings looked like the Stellarium image below.

 

 

I got about 90x with no problems using a GSO Amici prism. The Cassini Division was visible & I could even see Titan. I think I was higher than a kite for over a fortnight! Saturn is truly a marvellous sight.

Edited by Shorty Barlow, 16 June 2025 - 06:51 PM.

[jupiter122]

Saturn is amazing to see for sure. Glad you found it!

 

Tim

[Sandy Swede]

Thank you! You brought back the memory in 9th grade of what got me hooked on this adventure.  Our science dept had a scope you could sign out like a library book. So I took it home, set it up, and after much searching, found beautiful Saturn. Still mesmerized after all these years (76 now). 

[Sincos]

 

Goodness waking up at 4AM & observing at 5AM... Really is the deep dark art of astronomy. Luckily I am a night owl. 

 

 

Aaahhh , the things we do for love . Waking up at all hours to catch a transit , occultation, egress or ingress, put the dog out , change a diaper………

[Knasal]

You won’t forget that observation, ever. Congratulations!

 

Kevin

[sevenofnine]

It's such a mesmerizing sight especially when the rings are tilted. I'll never forget my first time with a 60mm Tasco refractor. It was the beginning of my fascination with astronomy     

[Universe XY]

Yeah, waited a long time to see Saturn with my own eyes. I saw Jupiter in University in the Astronomy dome. Think it was about a 14 inch telescope.

Actually still seemed small to me as I was expecting more.

Caught Jupiter & 4 moons a few times, Venus in crescent but never had the chance to catch Saturn...I see why 4AM!!! 

 

It was so cute & perfect. The rings were a perfect thin line tilted down across the center to the right side. Etc 10P & 5A on the clock.

 

The rings were side on pencil thin...No doubt it was Saturn even at 60X I could make it out though it was so small it was sharp & clear.

 

Maybe I'll catch it again but my back is not happy lately carrying the scope.

Still I had to push through it at the chance to see it & it was worth it! 

Edited by Universe XY, 17 June 2025 - 12:07 AM.

[Inkie]

I'm a night owl as well, but I'm the stay-up-late-and-sleep-in-late kind.  I would be hard-pressed to rise in the pre-dawn to see even something as marvelous as Saturn.  I'm happy you are able to do it, and that you were finally rewarded with a great view.  Congratulations.  Memories are made of these.

[therealdmt]

Congratulations, Universe XY! A great memory for you, for sure — first ever view of The Ringed Planet through a telescope.

 

Given the 4 a.m. viewing time involved, you sound hooked
 

[Universe XY]

Guess what Neptune is right next to Saturn this morning from about 3A to 5A

Not sure if I can make it but got the bigger SV 80mm 750mm scope mounted so with a 6 or 7 mm should easily get 100X.

The longer SV 80mm balances better than the short 72mm... Strange but happy as the SV MC2 was not doing well with that scope.

 

 

Might even play with the Meade ETX too as I have really only had it out 2X. Don't like it but it's compact & when you're half asleep

watching the sky it might be easier to carry outside. Walking from a deep sleep is sort of a vertigo when you've got your neck pinched & head up to the sky you can get disoriented. These objects are not high in the sky so that could work & I might  get up to 140 w a 9mm (not sure what would be lowest ep for it)

 

Guess I should carry it on the balcony so it will be ready. My strength is not as good when i wake from a sleep &  don't want to trip.

 

I know I can do 3A if Saturn is high enough at 20 degrees E. But might have to wait until it rises.

I can have the scope covered on the balcony so I can do some sleepwalking sky viewing.

Moon will be viewable too...

 

Yeah! Star Party Time! Maybe I'll make some popcorn. 

Edited by Universe XY, 17 June 2025 - 03:38 AM.

[Illinois]

Glad you found it. I never forget when I saw Saturn for first time 50 years ago.  Cool to keep eye on Saturn for years to see the rings changes.  Jupiter will coming  soon!

[Yerman]

I guess we all have those memories for me it was 1973 I’d just bought a 60mm department store scope and tripod. It was about $65 but all aluminum and steel no plastic. I still have it. I woke up about 2-3am and saw a very bright star out of the bed room window. I quickly got the scope and finally found the bright star. To my amazement it was not a star it was Saturn in all its glory. I was excited woke up the wife come quick you have to see this. She put her blurry eye up to the 6mm huygens. It probably had about 1-2mm eye relief. She said yea yea that’s nice and went back to bed. I’m sure she did not see anything in that little eyepiece but I sure did. Now 50years on and $20000 dollars later I’m still amazed. Keep those memories they are priceless.

[A Star Geezer]

Saturn is an amazing planet to seeing for the first time, mine was about 70 years ago through my uncles brass telescope, still see the image when I close my eyes and think about! Enjoy the memory of it  

[Universe XY]

Thanks, Everyone for sharing those stories of stellar excitement. Saturn is definitely a big leap in the deep sky of the solar system. Jupiter is really great & Venus the crescent is grand but Saturn is just so far out!!!

 

Astronomy bug bit hard last night. Spent 2A to close to 6A checking out the sky...mostly trying to get a view of Saturn from just an approx location & my internal radar. Finally Saturn again at 90X. Better!!!

 

Spent the entire night up until about 6AM. Lucky I could sleep on & off until noon.

 

The SV 90/9D has really good color. Moon was white no color fringing but very turbulent. I don't think it was the telescope but the smaller 72mm doublet apo really was killer sharp & steady. Probably conditions of a bit of both better glass.

 

Changed over to the Raptor on the Porta Mini/Bogen 3036. Very shaky. Much more so than the Bogen 3046 with the SV MC2. Well, that's a plus that I'm going in the right direction.

 

Last night was very turbulent. The air made the photons dance & the even the Moon was in a dense shifting wave. It's edges just a superposition of where it was & where it was not. Really pleased to have two nights that were clear & not cloudy so can't complain about the turbulence. 90X last night so Saturn was bigger a real nice fat dot & the line of the rings.

Expect to see this again after 2:30AM if conditions allow. The Moon & Saturn in excellent view with Neptune being a small star.

 

The Porta Mini is maxed. Last night it would not hold the 90 mm carbon scope up when i brought it inside. Have to check things out with that but it really should not be at or above 8 lbs even though it was handling it but add a 2 inch TV diagonal & it's pushing the limit.

 

I even tried to 3X barlow a 15mm but it was dark & not detailed at all. Oh well, I suppose 5mm was too much for the conditions.

All in all it ended on a high note. Very frustrating in the beginning trying to get Saturn & balance the scope again. Taking the tube out to focus with a diagonal & ep really shifts the balance. Hard to view when you're trying to balance a heavy scope in the dark at 3AM. I guess that's part of the learning curve,

 

Question: Do objects encounter more turbulence when they are lower in the sky or was last night just a really rough night? At one point the moon was just wigging all over the place as the light waves were making a mesmerizing delusion.

 

Hope to sleep & get up 2:30A tonight & get a quick look with a better set up. Saturn is just darn too cute! Would Neptune just be a tiny faint starlike pinpoint? That's all I observed to the left of Saturn but it seemed to be closer next to it not above as in the chart. Couldn't be a moon? 

 

Edited by Universe XY, 17 June 2025 - 05:10 PM.

[A Star Geezer]

I'm not an expert but I think when you observe something low on the horizon you are looking through more air thickness, which might give you more disturbance to look through.

[Dave Mitsky]

Question: Do objects encounter more turbulence when they are lower in the sky or was last night just a really rough night? At one point the moon was just wigging all over the place as the light waves were making a mesmerizing delusion.

Atmospheric extinction really begins to take a toll on the brightness (magnitude) of objects below 30 degrees in altitude.

 

The closer your target is to the horizon, the more air you have to look through, and the more degraded your view gets. The amount of air directly overhead is called one airmass. (The actual amount of air in one airmass varies depending on your elevation above sea level.)
 

For a star 30° above the horizon, you're looking through two airmasses. At 10°, 5.6 airmasses, and for an object on the horizon, 40 airmasses. The number of airmasses is approximately 1/sin(alt), though this needs modification near the horizon because of Earth's curvature. See Green's article for a more accurate formula.
 

Extinction is usually measured in magnitudes per airmass. For instance, let's say that extinction is 0.16 magnitudes per airmass, the best it can ever get at sea level. Then a star overhead appears 0.16 magnitude fainter (86% as bright) as it really is, a star 30° above the horizon, with 2 airmasses to look through, appears 0.32 magnitude fainter, or 74% as bright, and an star 10° above the horizon appears 0.90 magnitude fainter, or just 44% as bright.
 

https://skyandtelesc...ric-extinction/
 

In addition, the seeing (atmospheric steadiness) can be worse at low altitudes.
 

Lower Altitude Effects:  The air near the ground is where the great majority of turbulent airflow of the atmosphere occurs, which of course happens to be the area where the great majority of amateur observers are located!. This is caused mainly by areas (houses, other building etc) of varying density radiating heat differently, resulting in local convection currents. This is caused when the Sun heats the ground during the day, and the heat is then radiated away at night. An un-varying topography, such as grassy fields, and large bodies of water are favourable to observe over, at they radiate the stored heat from the day more slowly and equally.

 

https://www.damianpe...com/seeing1.htm

 

http://www.damianpea...m/pickering.htm

 

https://skyandtelesc...ing-the-seeing/

 

https://www.skyatnig...nomical-seeing/

[Universe XY]

Atmospheric extinction really begins to take a toll on the brightness (magnitude) of objects below 30 degrees in altitude.

 

The closer your target is to the horizon, the more air you have to look through, and the more degraded your view gets. The amount of air directly overhead is called one airmass. (The actual amount of air in one airmass varies depending on your elevation above sea level.)
 

For a star 30° above the horizon, you're looking through two airmasses. At 10°, 5.6 airmasses, and for an object on the horizon, 40 airmasses. The number of airmasses is approximately 1/sin(alt), though this needs modification near the horizon because of Earth's curvature. See Green's article for a more accurate formula.
 

Extinction is usually measured in magnitudes per airmass. For instance, let's say that extinction is 0.16 magnitudes per airmass, the best it can ever get at sea level. Then a star overhead appears 0.16 magnitude fainter (86% as bright) as it really is, a star 30° above the horizon, with 2 airmasses to look through, appears 0.32 magnitude fainter, or 74% as bright, and an star 10° above the horizon appears 0.90 magnitude fainter, or just 44% as bright.
 

https://skyandtelesc...ric-extinction/
 

In addition, the seeing (atmospheric steadiness) can be worse at low altitudes.
 

Lower Altitude Effects:  The air near the ground is where the great majority of turbulent airflow of the atmosphere occurs, which of course happens to be the area where the great majority of amateur observers are located!. This is caused mainly by areas (houses, other building etc) of varying density radiating heat differently, resulting in local convection currents. This is caused when the Sun heats the ground during the day, and the heat is then radiated away at night. An un-varying topography, such as grassy fields, and large bodies of water are favourable to observe over, at they radiate the stored heat from the day more slowly and equally.

 

https://www.damianpe...com/seeing1.htm

 

http://www.damianpea...m/pickering.htm

 

https://skyandtelesc...ing-the-seeing/

 

https://www.skyatnig...nomical-seeing/

Thanks!

I sort of had a feeling it was part of it. I usually can't see too low in most directions so it never was an issue. Never was observing at 4 or 5AM either.

 

I was trying to compare the scope from the night before but it wasn't a fair comparison as last night the turbulence seemed to be really be a factor or else last nights scope was better. Not ready to believe that yet as I had the bigger ones out but them again maybe they magnified the disturbance more.

 

The old SV 80/9D was not doing well at all but it had been really good on the past. I just have so little time with each scope so still trying to determine where the strengths lie. 

 

I'm not that far above sea level but I am not on the coast & in the bottom of the valley so probably at 500 feet??? Maybe. OK, can't be so sure but looks like I'm around 620 ft above sea level.. The freeway is behind me so that must make some heat/

[Universe XY]

Woke up at 4AM last night. Just took out the 10X50's. 

Saturn & the Moon dance again after 3AM.

Don't really have a scope set up.

Spent a major part of the day watering the garden. Hot here & got sunburned & broke my back with the heavy watering.

Scope is not light either. Doing my best in my 6th decade...

 

Got the NP101 on the mount & onto the balcony! Had it balanced!!!! Saw the Moon for a few minutes but before I could see Saturn the clouds rolled in & covered the Moon as is the fashion when viewing through a new scope. Still it was a success. I love the Televue & it's as big as I need to go for now. Very happy only wish the clouds would have let me see Saturn again...

 

A little after 3AM the sky is cloudy & sated I can go to sleep/// 

 

My new 4 inch baby! I only wish I could have compared Saturn in it... 

 

 

 

Edited by Universe XY, 19 June 2025 - 05:25 AM.

[Dangerdan]

The first time I saw Saturn I was awestruck.  Good on you!

[MrsM75]

Atmospheric extinction really begins to take a toll on the brightness (magnitude) of objects below 30 degrees in altitude.

......

 

Yep. What Sir DaveMitsky said. For beginners, avoid anything below 30 degrees. 

 

Very true on the atmospheric thing the lower atitude you go.

Higher up the sky I have no problem see magnitude 11 stars even with a small Mak. But once it get low, like 20 degrees altitude and below, I started loosing magnitude, I be lucky if I can see magnitude 8 stars at 20 degrees altitude.

 

I have no problem see M101 here, it whopping high here like 85 degrees altitude high.  And M101 is no easy object, it and M74 are known to be hard.

 

But then M83 which is the Southern Pinwheel galaxy, it culminate here at 25 degrees altitude, and I struggle hard with this galaxy. Till today I still can't see it.

 

Galaxy work differently, if you can't see magnitude 8 stars at 20 degrees altitude, then forget magnitude 8 galaxy (which M83 is).

 

Omega Centauri it glorious as everyone say. But here at 8 degrees altitude low, all I can see is a huge grey glow of some sort, cannot even resolve one single star in the globular cluster, it big though, like big big, but it just a grey glow of some sort. 

 

It went from glorious White color Omega, to dim Grey glow color Omega. It literally look like that when it at 8 degrees altitude low. And I mean visual only, Not Night vision help.

Edited by MrsM75, 19 June 2025 - 05:16 AM.

[MrsM75]

And Miss OP, it your first time see Saturn.

 

Me is my first time see Saturn Moon Transit, Saturn biggest Moon Titan Moon transit few days ago. Titan Moon transit will come back in July 2nd, so you should try to see it then.

 

I remember when I started out this hobby, I had a Coke can size 60mm Mak, all I know was Saturn (and that big fat Jupiter), but I like Saturn, I literally chase Saturn as in I follow wherever ever it go, from it raise to it set, I chase after Saturn, lol.

 

But the happiest time for me in this hobby was see Mars Opposition (I believe it was early 2023), I see Mars Albedo spot, something I never forget. Even Saturn can't compare.

 

eta: And Miss OP, it insane like my mouth open insane that you just beginner and look at your signature, wow all those Televue eyepieces and Televue NP101 Triplets.

 

whoa.

Edited by MrsM75, 19 June 2025 - 05:24 AM.

[Universe XY]

Clouds came in quick around 3AM & ruined the Saturn Party. Had a few looks at the moon then it was gone. No Saturn tonight

but I took a new telescope for a little spin & it works great!

 

Happy & tired so that's a wrap...

[Universe XY]

And Miss OP, it your first time see Saturn.

 

Me is my first time see Saturn Moon Transit, Saturn biggest Moon Titan Moon transit few days ago. Titan Moon transit will come back in July 2nd, so you should try to see it then.

 

I remember when I started out this hobby, I had a Coke can size 60mm Mak, all I know was Saturn (and that big fat Jupiter), but I like Saturn, I literally chase Saturn as in I follow wherever ever it go, from it raise to it set, I chase after Saturn, lol.

 

But the happiest time for me in this hobby was see Mars Opposition (I believe it was early 2023), I see Mars Albedo spot, something I never forget. Even Saturn can't compare.

 

eta: And Miss OP, it insane like my mouth open insane that you just beginner and look at your signature, wow all those Televue eyepieces and Televue NP101 Triplets.

 

whoa.

NP101 is a doublet in front & maybe 2 in back so a quad but not a triplet. SV Raptor is a triplet. Yeah, I went crazy shopping CN classified & before I knew it I had maxed my credit card... Scary but you only live once!

 

The TV ep's are all probably 35-40 years old. I really like them. They work well enough for me.

[MrsM75]

It is windy where you are Mrs? 

 

I live in the Inland Valley and omg windy here this year, daytime it like 15 mph winds, night time is like 12 mph winds.

 

The last 2 Summers were not like this, I do not know what going on with this Summer, at least for the past 4 days it gives me Clear sky, so I can see my beloved M75, lol.

Edited by MrsM75, 19 June 2025 - 05:44 AM.