20 replies to this topic

[SparkyMike2010]

Inspired by UniverseXY’s thread about getting up early to view Saturn, I got up at 230 to go get a look. The seeing was the best I’ve had, and was able to use my highest power eyepiece (4mm Morpheus)in my 12” dob (339x). I could see 2 moons tagging along, and the detail in the rings was fascinating.
My question is on the planet itself . All I could see of Saturn was a gold disk. I understand Saturn is sorta pale yellow, brown and I’ve seen it in other scopes, but this wasn’t that. It was a bright, golden yellow. Like the planet was made of gold and reflected that light back at me and idk what caused this or what to do about it for next time. My best guess right now is moon glow.

Thanks again

[MrsM75]

I use only long focal Maks and Saturn visually tome is always the bright golden yellow color, or at least in my Maks.

 

I never see a brown Saturn, perhaps it was low in your sky when you see it, atmospheric, or you was using a Refractor where it has alot of Chromatic Aberration, cheap Refractors show sure show that.

[Polyphemos]

Likely Saturn was low in the sky so atmospheric effects are probably a significant factor in its appearance. It sure sounded like it was pretty and a wonderful observation. When seeing is good, and Saturn is higher and closer, the disk can display pastel bands of pale cream, yellow, and other similar colors through even a modest (76mm) aperture refractor.

 

I’m surprised and encouraged you’re able to see some detail in the rings; I thought them being close to edge on they would only appear as a thin line. 

[Universe XY]

Ohhhh, how nice!!!! I'm so honored I had a positive affect on the Cloudy Nights Forum! 

Pretty much a crap shoot. 

Check the charts for the ideal views & hope the sky conditions & gods are kind...

 

Last night I woke at 4AM tired & not wanting to get tout of bed but dragged myself to the balcony where I saw a cloudy gray sky & crawled back into bed.

 

 

The rings I saw were a thin line. Maybe they were wider but from my view I figured I was looking at them head on but maybe it's ust that they are so far & even if there not perpendicular to the view of sight they look that way in a poor 90X.

[Universe XY]

Inspired by UniverseXY’s thread about getting up early to view Saturn, I got up at 230 to go get a look. The seeing was the best I’ve had, and was able to use my highest power eyepiece (4mm Morpheus)in my 12” dob (339x). I could see 2 moons tagging along, and the detail in the rings was fascinating.
My question is on the planet itself . All I could see of Saturn was a gold disk. I understand Saturn is sorta pale yellow, brown and I’ve seen it in other scopes, but this wasn’t that. It was a bright, golden yellow. Like the planet was made of gold and reflected that light back at me and idk what caused this or what to do about it for next time. My best guess right now is moon glow.

Thanks again

Wow, you had some good power compared to my 90X. Saturn looks like a gold dot to me. Seeing moons is certainly possible but I struggled just to see Saturn. 

The moon is out & very near Saturn the last few nights so has to affect the darkness of the sky.

 

Anyway I'll take it anyway it comes!

 

Glad you had a interesting observation.

[SparkyMike2010]

If gold Saturn is normal then I’m great with it, just wanted to be sure it wasn’t something with me and my telescope. When I saw it pale yellow / yellow-brown was at an outreach event looking through someone else’s dob. This was my first time with Saturn in my own scope so I was concerned.
Sadly, I missed the opportunity to see Saturn edge on, I was working a lot of hours at the time. While there not very wide yet there is some depth. It was interesting to look at
I’m going to make an effort to do more early morning observing over the summer. I’m guessing the atmosphere will be as stable as it can be here in the low desert, and it’ll be as “less hot” temperature wise at those wee hours of the morning!

Edited by SparkyMike2010, 21 June 2025 - 08:09 AM.

[NinePlanets]

Maybe you were just looking through a layer of forest fire smoke? That tends to redden things a bit and could make yellow look more gold.

[SeattleScott]

At that magnification you should see some banding/shading, but it might have been too low, your scope might not have been cooled, or your collimation might be off.

[SparkyMike2010]

Forest fire would require trees. 🤣. We don’t have those here! I live in the low desert, There’s no trees here unless somebody planted them!
In all seriousness though we do often have poor transparency because of dust in the air, blowing dust, smoke from burning fields or the occasional brush fires. None of that applies here though, the transparency was excellent, wind in the evening cleared the air.

[SparkyMike2010]

Scope was cooled, i set it out the night before. I doubt collimation, I looked at an open cluster beforehand and stars are points. That said I’ll check it next time I take it out for sure 👍.

It was pretty low in the sky, and already being only about 250 feet above sea level, there is a lot of atmosphere to see through!

[Universe XY]

Forest fire would require trees. . We don’t have those here! I live in the low desert, There’s no trees here unless somebody planted them!
In all seriousness though we do often have poor transparency because of dust in the air, blowing dust, smoke from burning fields or the occasional brush fires. None of that applies here though, the transparency was excellent, wind in the evening cleared the air.

Desert is all dust. No vegetation to hold it down so any breeze stirs it up into the atmospheres. Tiny grains or silica that can refract like prisms & scatter light. Anyway that's my theory.

[SparkyMike2010]

We do have vegetation , I don’t live in the sand dunes! Those are 30 minutes West! We also have lots of agriculture; fields and orchards. So if we get wind that doesn’t kick up sand then it clears the air and we get excellent transparency. Too much wind or too gusty then the transparency all goes bad. It’s gotta be juuuuust right. Then stop all together.
It’s kind of an irony that I live in one of the sunniest, driest places on earth, so cloudy nights are seldomly my issue. It’s how much atmosphere there is, the seeing, and transparency that usually keeps my telescope put away. Well, that and 2 small children, and my job, and… and… and… 🤷🏼‍♂️

Edited by SparkyMike2010, 24 June 2025 - 09:16 AM.

[Dave Mitsky]

Forest fire would require trees. 🤣. We don’t have those here! I live in the low desert, There’s no trees here unless somebody planted them!
In all seriousness though we do often have poor transparency because of dust in the air, blowing dust, smoke from burning fields or the occasional brush fires. None of that applies here though, the transparency was excellent, wind in the evening cleared the air.

Smoke from large wildfires can cover large swaths of the United States.

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[Jawaid I. Abbasi]

In 20+ experience; I learned that there is a Goldie lock and what does it mean is that the planet can be seen with the following:

 

1- If using 0.25 times of aperture; can see planet that you immediately recognize its shape. I called it to confirm the planet.

2- If using 0.70 times of aperture; can see some detail but the image is sharp.

3- If using 1.50 times of aperture; can see detail and not sharp as #2 but still pleasant to the eyes.

4- Last but not least; you can go 2.0 times of the aperture but most of the times atmospheric turbulent makes it bad.

 

Keep in mind that the optics, seeing condition, and tripod/mount plays major role. There are other conditions involved but these are the major conditions for me and that is my own opinion which is debatable.

[Universe XY]

In 20+ experience; I learned that there is a Goldie lock and what does it mean is that the planet can be seen with the following:

 

1- If using 0.25 times of aperture; can see planet that you immediately recognize its shape. I called it to confirm the planet.

2- If using 0.70 times of aperture; can see some detail but the image is sharp.

3- If using 1.50 times of aperture; can see detail and not sharp as #2 but still pleasant to the eyes.

4- Last but not least; you can go 2.0 times of the aperture but most of the times atmospheric turbulent makes it bad.

 

Keep in mind that the optics, seeing condition, and tripod/mount plays major role. There are other conditions involved but these are the major conditions for me and that is my own opinion which is debatable.

Hmmm, should it make much difference in 73, 80 vs 90mm?

 

I'm not sure how to decipher this. Using what ,25X the aperature?

 

magnification?

 

80 X ,25 = 20 20 what? 20 power?

 

80/65 = 1.2 so is that why I wasn't able to resolve Saturns rings?

 

Seems that would make refractors unusable at high power or at least keep it under 1.5X the scope aperature?

 

90mm/1.5 = 60 60X tops for a 90mm???? I had it to 90X with a 7mm & Saturn was ok. Bigger than in the 73mm but the 73mm F5.9 was really sharp.

Edited by Universe XY, 25 June 2025 - 02:46 PM.

[Jawaid I. Abbasi]

Hmmm, should it make much difference in 73, 80 vs 90mm?

 

I'm not sure how to decipher this. Using what ,25X the aperature?

 

magnification?

 

80 X ,25 = 20 20 what? 20 power?

 

80/65 = 1.2 so is that why I wasn't able to resolve Saturns rings?

 

Seems that would make refractors unusable at high power or at least keep it under 1.5X the scope aperature?

 

90mm/1.5 = 60 60X tops for a 90mm???? I had it to 90X with a 7mm & Saturn was ok. Bigger than in the 73mm but the 73mm F5.9 was really sharp.

Sorry, I ought to put an example 

Let's say, if you have a 90mm telescope then all three magnifications will as follow:

90x0.25

so, 45x magnification achieved.

 

90x0.70

so, 63x magnification achieved.

 

90x1.50

so, 135x magnification achieved.

 

People use magnification according to their taste/needs, but I generally stick with the above formula unless observing moon

[Polyphemos]

Hmmm, should it make much difference in 73, 80 vs 90mm?

 

I'm not sure how to decipher this. Using what ,25X the aperature?

 

magnification?

 

80 X ,25 = 20 20 what? 20 power?

 

80/65 = 1.2 so is that why I wasn't able to resolve Saturns rings?

 

Seems that would make refractors unusable at high power or at least keep it under 1.5X the scope aperature?

 

90mm/1.5 = 60 60X tops for a 90mm???? I had it to 90X with a 7mm & Saturn was ok. Bigger than in the 73mm but the 73mm F5.9 was really sharp.

By 0.25 times, 0.70 times, etc., times the aperture the reference is to the objective aperture in millimeters such that multiplying the aperture of the telescope objective times the multipliers yields the desired magnifications, after which you choose the eyepieces that provides those desired magnifications.

 

For example, let’s say you want to use 0.70x the aperture of an 80mm scope:

 

0.70x 80 = 56X magnification.

 

Now let’s say your scope has a 400mm focal length and you want to choose an eyepiece that will give you the desired 56X magnification. You divide the focal length of the scope by the desired magnifications like so:

 

400 / 56 = 7.14, so you will need an around 7mm eyepiece to achieve your desired magnification.

[Universe XY]

By 0.25 times, 0.70 times, etc., times the aperture the reference is to the objective aperture in millimeters such that multiplying the aperture of the telescope objective times the multipliers yields the desired magnifications, after which you choose the eyepieces that provides those desired magnifications.

 

For example, let’s say you want to use 0.70x the aperture of an 80mm scope:

 

0.70x 80 = 56X magnification.

 

Now let’s say your scope has a 400mm focal length and you want to choose an eyepiece that will give you the desired 56X magnification. You divide the focal length of the scope by the desired magnifications like so:

 

400 / 56 = 7.14, so you will need an around 7mm eyepiece to achieve your desired magnification.

I just divide the focal length by the eye mm to get the power. 

 

Never really worked with aperture calculation. 

 

That's something different I guess it's good to know that. I just don't worry about the aperture. Thanks it's confusing.

 

I have a SV 80mm X 750mm on the balcony so I'll use 24mm, 15mm & 7mm probably. Sometimes I just skip the 24 & start w 15mm

trying to get another shot at Saturn. Last night I had Jons 80X480 out & I couldn't see any rings on Saturn at 65X. This scope should get up to 107X so much more than the 65X. I've had this scope on Saturn & it was a bad night. Really very wavy. Was sort of disappointed but it was a cheap scope. I wanted it as its 750mm & it could give a power boost.

 

I've seen a thin line of rings w the 73X430 at 60X. Different nights, maybe altitude & also an FPL53 apo doublet vs a achro has to have an affect I hope as that's why I have been investing in scopes.

 

Balcony is got room for 2 scopes so if I have the energy I'll do some scope comparing.

[Polyphemos]

I just divide the focal length by the eye mm to get the power. 

 

Never really worked with aperture calculation. 

 

That's something different I guess it's good to know that. I just don't worry about the aperture. Thanks it's confusing.

 

I have a SV 80mm X 750mm on the balcony so I'll use 24mm, 15mm & 7mm probably. Sometimes I just skip the 24 & start w 15mm

trying to get another shot at Saturn. Last night I had Jons 80X480 out & I couldn't see any rings on Saturn at 65X. This scope should get up to 107X so much more than the 65X. I've had this scope on Saturn & it was a bad night. Really very wavy. Was sort of disappointed but it was a cheap scope. I wanted it as its 750mm & it could give a power boost.

 

I've seen a thin line of rings w the 73X430 at 60X. Different nights, maybe altitude & also an FPL53 apo doublet vs a achro has to have an affect I hope as that's why I have been investing in scopes.

 

Balcony is got room for 2 scopes so if I have the energy I'll do some scope comparing.

I had a look at Saturn a few mornings ago when seeing was acceptable and all that’s visible of the rings is a thin line. You’re going to have to wait a few years to see Saturn in all it’s glory.

 

Be careful not to attribute a bad view to the scope when it’s not the scope but the seeing that’s bad. I’m sure the scope you’ve received from Jon performs perfectly well; otherwise he wouldn’t have given it to you.

 

When seeing is bad, and that sounds like what you experienced, no scope at any price is going to make up for it to any significant degree. As I write this my local wind is blowing at 47 mph gusting to 53 mph. Under these conditions it makes no difference whether I’m looking through a $4k Stowaway or a $100 Celestron; the view will be equally poor.

[Universe XY]

I had a look at Saturn a few mornings ago when seeing was acceptable and all that’s visible of the rings is a thin line. You’re going to have to wait a few years to see Saturn in all it’s glory.

 

Be careful not to attribute a bad view to the scope when it’s not the scope but the seeing that’s bad. I’m sure the scope you’ve received from Jon performs perfectly well; otherwise he wouldn’t have given it to you.

 

When seeing is bad, and that sounds like what you experienced, no scope at any price is going to make up for it to any significant degree. As I write this my local wind is blowing at 47 mph gusting to 53 mph. Under these conditions it makes no difference whether I’m looking through a $4k Stowaway or a $100 Celestron; the view will be equally poor.

I saw the thin line of the rings. Two times now.

First was the WO 73mm & it was small but sharp.

The next day the atm was wavy. The SV achro  didn't so well in it but the Raptor got Saturn & the thin line that night maybe not as sharp as the night before but it was larger.

 

Last night I only had Jons out & could not make out any rings but maybe it was the night. Your right I should not conclude that it can't see rings as it could have been the conditions.

 

3:30AM AGAIN!!!!! Saturn eluded my observation. Like clockwork the sky turned white!!!!! Gone!!!!! Wqit all night * GONE!!!!

 

Just tired & achy with no satisfaction tonight...

 

Played with the Meade 90ETX tonight on Antares looking for M4...Nope. Couldn't even use a 10mm it was too dark to see Antares.

That's not a deep sky/ Nebula scope. Moon is nice.

 

 

That's why I added the parameter of conditions of the night. Unless you compare a scope in the same night side by side your really can't tell.

Jon's scope is amazing. It holds it's on with the ones with pedigrees. I still am in awe of it's sharp pin points & of course you have to figure in the mount.

A scope on a better mount & tripod is going to preform better. Even a .99 Strehl on a shaky mount & tripod is not going to be great.

 

It's sort of been breezy here. I know that one night I could see the moon moving around in waves it was so bad. 

Edited by Universe XY, 26 June 2025 - 05:32 AM.

[Universe XY]

I had a look at Saturn a few mornings ago when seeing was acceptable and all that’s visible of the rings is a thin line. You’re going to have to wait a few years to see Saturn in all it’s glory.

 

Be careful not to attribute a bad view to the scope when it’s not the scope but the seeing that’s bad. I’m sure the scope you’ve received from Jon performs perfectly well; otherwise he wouldn’t have given it to you.

 

When seeing is bad, and that sounds like what you experienced, no scope at any price is going to make up for it to any significant degree. As I write this my local wind is blowing at 47 mph gusting to 53 mph. Under these conditions it makes no difference whether I’m looking through a $4k Stowaway or a $100 Celestron; the view will be equally poor.

I took Jon's scope out for a night & saw Saturn. I must have been looking at a star I thought was Saturn.

Could see it was definitely Saturn this time. Nice & enjoyable but you can see more contrast & sharpness in the better glass & of course no two night as are the same so never a accurate comparison but Jon's scope does an amazing job. I bought other scopes with APO & FPL53 in the hope to teak as mu ch as I could out of my poor Bortle 8/9 skies.  Jon's scope is a great light take it anywhere scope. I'll have to get it into other areas than the balcony & my Southern sky view to open up more possibilities but I have been enjoying it as the walls protect the scope from 3 sides blocking lights.

 

Saw Saturn again last night in a WO Zstar 73mm F5.9. Really sharp view of Saturn & the bogen 3046 & SV MC2 mount really is very steady but really hard to balance especially with a short heavy brick that this scope is.

 

Moon was also in the sky & it's really not upsetting the view as I never have a dark sky anyway.

 

Saturn is amazing!!!