207 replies to this topic

[TareqPhoto]

Ok let me ask this simple question just to start slowly.

 

If i focus on TeleVue brand, then:

 

1. Which the only Ethos EP to keep if you have several ones?

 

2. Which Delos EP you will choose out of many regardless the scope?

 

3. If you buy only one Nagler, what that will be?

 

4. What about the only DeLite?

[Jaimo!]

Ok let me ask this simple question just to start slowly.

 

If i focus on TeleVue brand, then:

 

1. Which the only Ethos EP to keep if you have several ones?

 

2. Which Delos EP you will choose out of many regardless the scope?

 

3. If you buy only one Nagler, what that will be?

 

4. What about the only DeLite?

Tareq, 

You are beginning to contradict yourself...

 

From you Original post:

Now i have 2 scopes, a Mak [180mm] and a Newtonian [8" F5], so i was thinking about one eyepiece that i can use on both to observe planets at closer as i can for each own magnification, i will start to buy and build eyepieces collection, and i know many tried many brands, i won't go this route if possible, and i asked about planetary EP so i am not asking for wide EPs, an about eye relief i still not sure if this will force me to my choice, budget is good but not unlimited, not cheap options as well, so i want an eyepiece that i know it will live with me with one scope or many scopes if possible, and i want to get one now as start as soon as possible so i can start observing.

 

Tele Vue eyepieces are always excellent.   But not alway the best for planetary viewing, as per the last 4 pages...  If you are looking for 1 "magic" eyepiece, for both of your scopes, you are in the right forum, but I don't think a single eyepiece will satisfy.

 

Jaimo!

[ACG]

There are no perfect eyepieces but magic and an example of this is the RKE28. Find your planetary magic eyepiece

[TareqPhoto]

Tareq, 

You are beginning to contradict yourself...

 

From you Original post:

Now i have 2 scopes, a Mak [180mm] and a Newtonian [8" F5], so i was thinking about one eyepiece that i can use on both to observe planets at closer as i can for each own magnification, i will start to buy and build eyepieces collection, and i know many tried many brands, i won't go this route if possible, and i asked about planetary EP so i am not asking for wide EPs, an about eye relief i still not sure if this will force me to my choice, budget is good but not unlimited, not cheap options as well, so i want an eyepiece that i know it will live with me with one scope or many scopes if possible, and i want to get one now as start as soon as possible so i can start observing.

 

Tele Vue eyepieces are always excellent.   But not alway the best for planetary viewing, as per the last 4 pages...  If you are looking for 1 "magic" eyepiece, for both of your scopes, you are in the right forum, but I don't think a single eyepiece will satisfy.

 

Jaimo!

If you watch my questions above or the last post you will notice that i never mention any scope, it was a general question, not about a specific scope, and i already said "regardless the scope" in the question, sorry again for that.

 

And i mentioned Tele Vue as i may have collection of different brands, but better i focus on one and finish it if possible then move to another, not necessary it must be only and all TeleVue, but i have to check out all TV versions first and once i am done then i can ask about something else or another brands.

[TareqPhoto]

There are no perfect eyepieces but magic and an example of this is the RKE28. Find your planetary magic eyepiece

And this is why i ask questions, one way or another i will buy even if i ask 1 million questions, it is just a matter of time and decision and maybe others recommendations/experiences.

[lylver]

Just to remind facts that are now forgotten.

Some old eyepieces formula, I would say before modern addition of the Smyth/Barlow front group, were designed to fit with the complete scope optic formula, and sometimes not conceived for astronomy.

 

Best example is the Abbe Ortho, when you check an afocal mode design on f10/f15 doublet refractor, nothing is better with 4 lenses and 4 air-glass surfaces. Do you think it was at first for astronomy ?

Second example in my mind : Erfle 2 ... designed for short fl binocular.

 

König assymetrical plössl (Clave / Brandon) fit best the König B apo triplet or newton reflector.

 

There are other tuning that have been made, trying to keep minimal lens count (calculation were hard at those time, and AR treatment were not performing as good as now) : 2+1 könig has two or more versions, one is astigmatic, other is acomatic.

 

Late evolution, that needed good AR treatment, and were microscopy/planetary tuned, have been made with 5-6 lens (Astroplan, BerteleWA/Scidmore...)

 

I don't know more complicated consistent group. Lastest evolutions are made with addition of front Smyth/Barlow and intermediate flattening field group.

--------------------------------------

 

About practical EP and for short fl, I like much TV Radian (partial retro engineered) and TMB planetary designs (air-spaced Smyth/Barlow and simple könig 2+1)

Better made TMB, with enhanced AR treatment, high quality glass (like the v1) would be ultimate long ER (comfortable) planetary. Maybe TV Delite, that I don't know, fits that.

I won't give any preference about "old" design because I did not tested deeply them.

One important thing is to say on which telescope you made the check.

[Peter Besenbruch]

Ok let me ask this simple question just to start slowly.

 

If i focus on TeleVue brand, then:

 

1. Which the only Ethos EP to keep if you have several ones?

 

2. Which Delos EP you will choose out of many regardless the scope?

 

3. If you buy only one Nagler, what that will be?

 

4. What about the only DeLite?

Question one isn't one that I like the premise of. If you like the eyepiece, you keep it. If you have different types of telescopes, you will like different focal length eyepieces for each scope.

 

Again, I don't like the premise of the second question. You will like different eyepiece focal lengths for each scope.

 

Again, I reject the premise of the third question, and for the same reason.

 

Again, I reject the premise of the 4th question.

 

On your 180mm Maksutov, the planetary range is something like 16mm to 7mm. You need to get an eyepiece at the long end, the short end, and somewhere in the middle. Naglers don't measure up to other eyepiece types for planetary viewing. Ethos are better, by all accounts, but not needed for planetary. That leaves Delos, Delite, or Plössl, with the latter yielding as good, or better views for planets.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Question one isn't one that I like the premise of. If you like the eyepiece, you keep it. If you have different types of telescopes, you will like different focal length eyepieces for each scope.

 

Again, I don't like the premise of the second question. You will like different eyepiece focal lengths for each scope.

 

Again, I reject the premise of the third question, and for the same reason.

 

Again, I reject the premise of the 4th question.

 

On your 180mm Maksutov, the planetary range is something like 16mm to 7mm. You need to get an eyepiece at the long end, the short end, and somewhere in the middle. Naglers don't measure up to other eyepiece types for planetary viewing. Ethos are better, by all accounts, but not needed for planetary. That leaves Delos, Delite, or Plössl, with the latter yielding as good, or better views for planets.

Let's say i will ignore the middle ones, so it will be both ends.

 

I said regardless scopes because sometimes members keep saying "I love this eyepiece, it is shining in all or most of my scopes", so that i asked as if there is one model of each version that can stand out in many scopes, not necessary to shine in all, but i don't know if there is an eyepiece that is a joy to be use in different scopes.

 

Forget about 180mm Mak, i have ST80, i ordered and still waiting my 8" Newtonian [F5], and maybe i buy another refractor better than ST80 and it will be an APO refractor, most likely maybe something of 60-70mm range, and in the future i am saving for Takahashi FSQ-106 no doubt, so i will have collection of scopes sooner or later, and most likely i will only focus on either very narrow high magnification or super wide field view, i won't focus much in the middle but i can think about that sometimes, and sounds wide eyepieces are in 25-40mm range.

 

I was hoping if there is kind of a chart or a table of each brand of eyepieces, mentioning the type or version of eyepieces then in opposite it mentions which scopes are compatible or recommended for, for example, Tele Vue 13mm Ethos ---> recommended for 70-120mm refractor, 6-10" reflector and 6" Mak, or the opposite, some with current gear mentioning the scope then recommend which eyepiece for each brand if possible, such as: Celestron C11[standard of HD] -------> Televue Nagler 10T6/13T/18.... Ethos 12 and 14 up to 32mm, ES 82" 10/16/24/32,....etc

 

With above it will guide some like me to different options, expensive or affordable, because i sometimes feel that i don't want to waste twice, i get an affordable eyepiece that is great but then i buy expensive one and i immediately sell the affordable, so i regret why didn't i buy the expensive, and most likely in my case i fail to sell anything so i may end up with items between affordable and expensive and those cheaper ones will collect dust or the expensive one may be overkill so it won't be used much so then it is a waste too, i hope you got my point i am trying to tell, it is always a subjective or personal yes i know, but sometimes the quality is always a winner or voted by all/most even if many don't have it, and i did really read about comments where a member moved from Baader to ES and never looked back or from ES to Tele Vue and it was like day and night, i hope i won't reach this situations, and i will try hard to focus on those who have exactly same of my scopes to be sure.

[csrlice12]

1. Grab an eyepiece, any eyepiece, and put it in the focuser

2. Look thru it, note if the view is good or bad, is the eye relief comfortable enough.

3. Continue to look or repeat step 1 with a different eyepiece.

4. Repeat above steps with a different telescope.

5. Sit back, take a deep breath, and revel in that warm feeling when you realize you have a lot of gear

Edited by csrlice12, 18 March 2018 - 11:03 AM.

[CrazyPanda]

I said regardless scopes because sometimes members keep saying "I love this eyepiece, it is shining in all or most of my scopes", so that i asked as if there is one model of each version that can stand out in many scopes, not necessary to shine in all, but i don't know if there is an eyepiece that is a joy to be use in different scopes.

It depends on the focal ratio and focal length differences between scopes. Some eyepieces are just too much magnification / too little exit pupil for some scopes, but are fine in others.

I have a 3mm eyepiece for my 12" F/5 dob at 1525mm, but I would never use that same eyepiece in a 16" F/10 SCT with a 4000mm focal length. Way too much magnification and way too small of an exit pupil.

Some eyepieces work well in fast focal ratios and slow focal ratios, other eyepieces only work well in slow focal ratios. Often when people say the eyepiece works well in all of their scopes they mean:

1. It has sufficient edge correction that it works well at slow and fast focal ratios
2. It has a modest focal length that is neither too much or too little magnification in all of their scopes
 

Forget about 180mm Mak, i have ST80, i ordered and still waiting my 8" Newtonian [F5], and maybe i buy another refractor better than ST80 and it will be an APO refractor, most likely maybe something of 60-70mm range, and in the future i am saving for Takahashi FSQ-106 no doubt, so i will have collection of scopes sooner or later, and most likely i will only focus on either very narrow high magnification or super wide field view, i won't focus much in the middle but i can think about that sometimes, and sounds wide eyepieces are in 25-40mm range.

Well with such a wide range of scopes, an eyepiece in one scope might give a wide field, low power view, but then another scope might give a high power, narrow field of view, and in yet another scope, it might give a medium power view.

Just do some basic math with say, a 10mm Ethos:

* 180mm Mak @ F/15 is 270x, 0.67mm exit pupil, 0.38 degree FOV - high power
* 8" Newt @ F/5 is 101x, 2mm exit pupil, and 1 degree FOV - modest power
* ST80 @ F/5 is 40x, 2mm exit pupil, and 2.54 degree FOV - low power

Three completely different views of the sky from the same eyepiece.
 

I was hoping if there is kind of a chart or a table of each brand of eyepieces, mentioning the type or version of eyepieces then in opposite it mentions which scopes are compatible or recommended for, for example, Tele Vue 13mm Ethos ---> recommended for 70-120mm refractor, 6-10" reflector and 6" Mak, or the opposite, some with current gear mentioning the scope then recommend which eyepiece for each brand if possible, such as: Celestron C11[standard of HD] -------> Televue Nagler 10T6/13T/18.... Ethos 12 and 14 up to 32mm, ES 82" 10/16/24/32,....etc

That does not exist. It's all a matter of preference and what your seeing conditions support.

Edited by CrazyPanda, 18 March 2018 - 12:24 PM.

[John Anthony]

Interesting thread, reminds me of the other 1 million or so just like it, the old whats best for planetary viewing debate.  Not that I don't like reading about it, I actually do but I really wonder how many individuals sit under an atmosphere that cooperates even 50 percent of the time to actually benefit from something that can really deliver a performance difference thats even worth taking note of.  On top of that I guess it depends somewhat on the scope being used too.

 My experience is not many and not most of the time, the topic is probably debated a million times more then it is actually experienced.   My experience is less high quality glass better views, my Super Mono's still rule the bunch but only when the atmosphere is cooperating and that is not most of the time, at least not here.    I'm glad I own them but they do get used the least only because Delos, Orthos and Plossl's perform just as well most nights and offer a more pleasant viewing experience.  

 

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it,  

 

 P.S. I have to mention the Pentax XO's..... Great eyepieces. 

[Jaimo!]

 

Forget about 180mm Mak, i have ST80, i ordered and still waiting my 8" Newtonian [F5], and maybe i buy another refractor better than ST80 and it will be an APO refractor, most likely maybe something of 60-70mm range, and in the future i am saving for Takahashi FSQ-106 no doubt, so i will have collection of scopes sooner or later, and most likely i will only focus on either very narrow high magnification or super wide field view, i won't focus much in the middle but i can think about that sometimes, and sounds wide eyepieces are in 25-40mm range.

 

Are we still discussing Planetary eyepieces?  If we are, you are dismissing the best Planetary scope you own, the 7" Maksutov f/15.  An ST-80 f/5 is probably not your best bet for planetary viewing... While possible, that scope was designed more as a "Rich Field" achromat for wide, low power sweeping views.  If you are no longer seriously wanting to discuss "Planetary Eyepieces", as in the title, you may be better served to start a new topic...

 

Jaimo!

[barbie]

On most nights, I use plossls or my 60 degree Starguider Dual ED eyepieces.  On the  rare nights of good to excellent seeing, the Orthos will get used.

[Peter Besenbruch]

Forget about 180mm Mak, i have ST80, i ordered and still waiting my 8" Newtonian [F5], and maybe i buy another refractor better than ST80 and it will be an APO refractor, most likely maybe something of 60-70mm range, and in the future i am saving for Takahashi FSQ-106 no doubt, so i will have collection of scopes sooner or later, and most likely i will only focus on either very narrow high magnification or super wide field view, i won't focus much in the middle but i can think about that sometimes, and sounds wide eyepieces are in 25-40mm range.

The ST80 is not a planetary scope, so that's a bit off topic. You can do planetary viewing in an 8", f5, depending on how well it cools down and is collimated. 200x (5mm) is a good eyepiece to start from. A 3.2-3.5mm is a practical high power, unless you have a very good mirror and stable seeing. There is no overlap between the f5 and f15 for planetary viewing. The Maksutov will make any eyepiece type look good. The Newtonian will be rather hard on eyepieces. If it is Dob. mounted, you will want a wide field for planetary viewing.

[TareqPhoto]

Sorry, i should be clear more, planetary sure talking about planets, but i should say solar system actually, the moon too, and the sun, so it is not planets only, but definitely for planetary i will use my 7" Mak and my 8" Newtonian maybe with Barlow.

 

Also, in the future i have to decide between 12"[i think i will pass this] or 14" or 16", then that will be my ultimate planetary scope, but for now let's say if i want to have 7" Mak and 8" Newtonian as my planetary scopes, so is there an eyepiece that i can use for both? let's say it give high power with 7" Mak then i will use a Barlow on 8" newt to have high power or even buy another eyepiece for it.

 

And yes, i may use a refractor to view planets even it is shorter, at least for my kids maybe or friends or anyone else if i don't want to deal with a Mak and Newt collimator process or weight, so this scope also can be used for planets for general purposes.

 

I used that 9mm LER on ST80 to see the planets, still small for sure but gave me little details after all, so i am sure ith Mak it will be way better, but what i found out is that with this 9mm it gave me kind of weird colors on Jupiter, not much with Saturn, but my cheap 7.5mm Plossl from SW was better but completely burnt out, even when i looked on the moon with 9mm it was better view for me with ST80 compared to a cheap 7.5mm, even when i used a cheap 2x Barlow [not yet TV 3X] with my ST80 it was still nicer view, i mean clearer or cleaner, i will try again later with them all, as i feel the eyepieces that came with my ST80 is better for ST80 maybe? but i didn't test the old EPs of ST80 on the new diagonal that came with the Mak, because the focuser is 2" now, i will give it more test and confirm later.

[TareqPhoto]

I am planning to buy 2 cheap eyepieces, Baader Ortho Plossl 6mm and Vixen NPL 8mm, not necessary for Mak only, but to see how much power they give on a Mak then on 8" Newtonian, and being cheap so it won't hurt the budget, the wider of both are starting from 10mm, so with Vixen it is 10mm then 8mm, while with Baader it is 10mm then 6mm, so no 7mm or 9mm or something, and i wanted higher than 10mm anyway, i do have 10mm came with ST80 so i thought those 10mm will be the same magnification regardles of degree or eye relief, and i have 7.5mm cheap so wanted to test 6mm which is the highest of Baader Plossl i found, and wanted to give Vixen a try too so i chose 8mm, they have 6mm and 4mm, but i was thinking i won't try 2 6mm or 2 8mm even from different eyepieces.

[Frankastro64]

Hi Tareq !

 

For planetary, the best EPs are the TMB Planetary I or II from Burgess (Beware Chinese clones are sold in the market !) :

 

But the real TMB EP are discontinued ! See in the used market !

 

 

On my side, the best EP which are available are the Vixen HR 1,6mm et 2,0mm :

FOR THE MOON

FOR OTHERS PLANETS

 

 

 

And the King of the Best is the Lomo Bertelé 14x  Focal Lenght of 17,6mm with 60° AFOV (Russian EP) : For Moon and Planets

 

Clear Sky to u

Frank

Edited by Frankastro64, 21 March 2018 - 04:54 PM.

[TareqPhoto]

Hi Tareq !

 

For planetary, the best EPs are the TMB Planetary I or II from Burgess (Beware Chinese clones are sold in the market !) : images2A87B1CP.jpg

 

But the real TMB EP are discontinued ! See in the used market !

 

 

On my side, the best EP which are available are the Vixen HR 1,6mm et 2,0mm :

Vixen-Oculaire-HR-1-6-mm-1-25-1.jpg FOR THE MOON

Vixen-Oculaire-HR-2-0-mm-1-25-2.jpg FOR OTHERS PLANETS

 

 

 

And the King of the Best is the Lomo Bertelé 14x  Focal Lenght of 17,6mm with 60° AFOV (Russian EP) : s-l16003.jpg For Moon and Planets

 

Clear Sky to u

Frank

Hi Frank,

 

Thank you very much!

 

Is that recommendation for my Mak or any scope? isn't 1.6mm and 2.0mm to high power? talking about Vixen

 

I am not searching in used market, if they are discontinued then i just look at in stock available one as brand new.

[Mark9473]

Hi Tareq !

 

For planetary, the best EPs are the TMB Planetary I or II from Burgess (Beware Chinese clones are sold in the market !) : images2A87B1CP.jpg

 

But the real TMB EP are discontinued ! See in the used market !

 

I have one of those original TMB 4 mm; not sure if version I or II.

It's a pretty decent planetary eyepiece for sure, but it absolutely sucks for lunar viewing - strong glare floods the view.

When I asked for an explanation, the reply I got was that these are planetary eyepieces, not lunar & planetary...

[Starman1]

For planets, narrow eyepieces with some edge of field issues are just fine.

But, for the Moon, it's different.

1) at high powers, the Moon will entirely fill the field.  You want the field to be:

--in focus from edge-to-edge, meaning no field curvature

--free from image-blurring astigmatism in the outer field, so you need eyepieces free of astigmatism to the edge.

--free from scattered light, aka veiling glare or haze, so the contrast remains intact when the image gets dimmer at high power.

--free from angular magnification distortion so the crater stays the same size across the field

2) at high powers, a larger crater may span the field.  You will see more of the A,B, and C craters around the main crater if the field is wider.

So a wide field will have an advantage.  Not to mention you will get a longer drift time in an undriven scope to examine your target.

 

For Moon viewing, ultra high powers are possible because of the size of the image and because of the brightness.

If you have the seeing to support the high powers, I have directly compared narrow and wider field eyepieces, and prefer the wider fields.

What that says to me is that eyepieces that may be appropriate for the Moon may also be great on the planets, but not vice-versa.

[Jaimo!]

Hi Frank,

 

Thank you very much!

 

Is that recommendation for my Mak or any scope? isn't 1.6mm and 2.0mm to high power? talking about Vixen

 

I am not searching in used market, if they are discontinued then i just look at in stock available one as brand new.

In my Mak, the 1.6x and 2.0x, yields 1125x and 900x respectively...  Thats 187.5x/inch, it's a nice scope, but it cannot defy the laws physics.

 

  

[CrazyPanda]

Hi Frank,

 

Thank you very much!

 

Is that recommendation for my Mak or any scope? isn't 1.6mm and 2.0mm to high power? talking about Vixen

 

I am not searching in used market, if they are discontinued then i just look at in stock available one as brand new.

Tareq, those eyepieces only make sense in small scopes with fast focal ratios. 

 

The 1.6mm in your Mak would be 1,687x and and 0.1mm exit pupil. The 2mm would be 1,350x and a 0.13mm exit pupil. Those two eyepiece are so far outside the realm of usability it's not even funny.

 

Even in the 8" F/5 they'll produce too much magnification and too small an exit pupil.

 

Please do not consider those eyepieces for your scopes. I honestly don't even know why those eyepieces exist.

Edited by CrazyPanda, 21 March 2018 - 08:28 PM.

[TareqPhoto]

Then why they are posted here as recommended or said to be "BEST of"?

 

I was thinking that is too much power, so maybe it will be fine for the Newtonian, but you now mentioned it is also high power with 8" F5, thank you very much to provide that, so then definitely no, i was thinking 8-10mm as maximum for my Mak and maybe nearly 4-6 for my Newtonian, soon when i get the budget i am adding or ordering 2 cheap eyepieces, one from Vixen ad one from Baader as test and not a big deal or lose, 6mm and 8mm, hope they can be fine either with my Mak or with my Newtonian or both if possible, they are there for reasons, if they are not practical then it is pointless to produce 6/8mm for any scope then.

[CrazyPanda]

Then why they are posted here as recommended or said to be "BEST of"?

Unfortunately, because people don't always think or read before they post :/

In general, there are very, very, very few telescopes where a 1.6mm and a 2mm eyepiece will ever make sense.
 

i was thinking 8-10mm as maximum for my Mak and maybe nearly 4-6 for my Newtonian

I would say that's reasonable. I don't know if the atmosphere will cooperate all the time, but for nights that are steady, those are reasonable maximums to have in your kit for those telescopes.

Edited by CrazyPanda, 22 March 2018 - 02:30 AM.

[TareqPhoto]

Unfortunately, because people don't always think or read before they post :/

In general, there are very, very, very few telescopes where a 1.6mm and a 2mm eyepiece will ever make sense.
 
I would say that's reasonable. I don't know if the atmosphere will cooperate all the time, but for nights that are steady, those are reasonable maximums to have in your kit for those telescopes.

I have steady nights, i swear we can have 300 bad nights and 60 excellent or 5 excellent and 60 just so so, yesterday the night is clear, i was testing my mount if working but it didn't, and i looked right or east,....... JU PIIIIIIIII  TERRRRRR, so bright and shiny, even can see Mars and Saturn naked eyes clear, i doubt this is one of those bad nights or bad seeing.