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Frustrations with 1965 Questar from eBay

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#1 jag32

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 04:46 PM

After having this 1965 Questar for 48 hours, i'm now seeing the value in ONLY purchasing a used Questar that has had a recent service.  As I used it over the last two days, I am finding dirt in places that are not cleanable by me inside the optics, the lever that controls the barlow is a loose resulting in the barlow hanging half-way engaged when the scope is tilted with the eyepiece facing to the right, when the finder is engaged there is an awkward mirror-like reflection in the right quadrant of the eyepiece, the declination axis has a failed drive after inspection and a telephone consultation with Questar Corporation, and i'm sure someone who is a Questar expert could find several other things wrong with this scope.  Needless to say, its apparent this Questar hasn't been serviced in decades, if at all, and is in badly need of a service.  This was definitely not in "Excellent+" condition as described in the eBay auction.  I just contacted the seller with a proposal of two options:  1) refund $600 so I can send the Questar to Questar Corp. for the standard service, which also covers shipping to/from; or 2) issue a full refund and provide a prepaid shipping label so I can return the Questar to him.  


Edited by jag32, 25 May 2018 - 05:00 PM.


#2 JamesMStephens

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 04:53 PM

I know you're frustrated, but if the $400-500 for a standard service would do the trick, you're still only in for half the cost of a new one.

 

Jim



#3 TomK1

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 05:01 PM

I see you own a tak.  Out of curiosity, why did you buy a a 53 yr old scope?  As opposed to a new Questar or 8/10/11 inch Teeter STS dob with/without encoders?



#4 jag32

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 05:03 PM

I know you're frustrated, but if the $400-500 for a standard service would do the trick, you're still only in for half the cost of a new one.

 

Jim

No doubt, i'm just not willing to pay the $500 myself when the Questar was described as being in "Excellent+" condition!  Not only that, the seller even described it as "Beautiful condition older Questar telescope, clean in every way, pretty much like new" in the ad.  There is literally hair inside the OTA which i'm not able to clean on top of all these above faults.  


Edited by jag32, 25 May 2018 - 05:06 PM.


#5 jag32

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 05:04 PM

I see you own a tak.  Out of curiosity, why did you buy a a 53 yr old scope?  As opposed to a new Questar or 8/10/11 inch Teeter STS dob with/without encoders?

I've always wanted a vintage Questar.  Trying to downsize and get away from the big scopes as I travel a lot.  I used to own 5+ Takahashi's at one point and only kept my smallest which fits in a medium sized backpack (FC-76DCU).


Edited by jag32, 25 May 2018 - 05:07 PM.


#6 Codbear

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 05:05 PM

John,

 

I think you are pretty much spot-on in your characterization. When I bought my Q7 Classic it had been sent to Questar the year before and was in quite good condition...not withstanding the inevitable little scratches of a 30 year old instrument.

 

When I bought my 1996 Q3.5 two years ago, it was in excellent shape, but I just couldn't seem to get those tack-sharp views I knew existed from briefly owning a new Q3.5 in 1991 (long story). I had already talked to Jim at Questar about sending it for servicing last June before the August eclipse, so I sent it in and he made sure it was done in plenty of time. 

 

It turned out that a tension spring that works with the focuser got angled a bit out of position, causing an ever-so-slight focusing issue. Not enough for terrestrial viewing, but noticeable in fuzzy Jupiter bands!

 

First time I tried it out it was fantastic - not to mention it looked brand new.

 

Send it in to get serviced and, as long as there are no coating issues, you'll still have purchased a great scope for a good price.

 

Edit: Just read your post that it was described as in excellent condition - THAT is frustrating!!!


Edited by Codbear, 25 May 2018 - 05:07 PM.


#7 jag32

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 05:09 PM

John,

 

I think you are pretty much spot-on in your characterization. When I bought my Q7 Classic it had been sent to Questar the year before and was in quite good condition...not withstanding the inevitable little scratches of a 30 year old instrument.

 

When I bought my 1996 Q3.5 two years ago, it was in excellent shape, but I just couldn't seem to get those tack-sharp views I knew existed from briefly owning a new Q3.5 in 1991 (long story). I had already talked to Jim at Questar about sending it for servicing last June before the August eclipse, so I sent it in and he made sure it was done in plenty of time. 

 

It turned out that a tension spring that works with the focuser got angled a bit out of position, causing an ever-so-slight focusing issue. Not enough for terrestrial viewing, but noticeable in fuzzy Jupiter bands!

 

First time I tried it out it was fantastic - not to mention it looked brand new.

 

Send it in to get serviced and, as long as there are no coating issues, you'll still have purchased a great scope for a good price.

 

Edit: Just read your post that it was described as in excellent condition - THAT is frustrating!!!

Absolutely!! Not only was it described as "excellent+" condition, but the seller even went so far as to say "pretty much like new"!  If I knew the Questar was in the condition it arrived in, I would have passed and sought out a different Questar.  But a Questar described as "pretty much like new" indicates that it is at least not badly need of a service.  Plenty of vintage Questars out there that are actually in great condition as they've been cared for through the years and don't need an immediate service.  I spoke with Jim and he assured me he can restore this Questar to "pretty much like new" condition, but that was what I was expecting when I bought it so i'm just not willing to spend the $500+.


Edited by jag32, 25 May 2018 - 05:09 PM.


#8 Wisconsin Steve

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 06:29 PM

That is a bummer, sorry to hear. Let us know what the seller response is.

#9 alwilder

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 07:00 PM

eBay is always a gamble unless the seller includes a return option if unsatisfactory. I was lucky in that the eBay seller of my 3.5 BB CerVit Duplex had it checked out by a local telecope company who independently confirmed to me that it looked very good on their inspection. When I got it, I had it checked by my telescope expert who said it was one of the nicest they've ever seen even though the vinyl case was in terrible shape. Regardless, I still had them send it to Questar for standard service and upgraded it with the Powerguide 3 which costs more than the standard service.



#10 RichA

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 07:21 PM

I see you own a tak.  Out of curiosity, why did you buy a a 53 yr old scope?  As opposed to a new Questar or 8/10/11 inch Teeter STS dob with/without encoders?

Is that like saying, I see you own a Lexus SUV, why did you buy a 1960's muscle car?  The comparison is ridiculous.



#11 JamesMStephens

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 07:25 PM

No doubt, i'm just not willing to pay the $500 myself when the Questar was described as being in "Excellent+" condition!  Not only that, the seller even described it as "Beautiful condition older Questar telescope, clean in every way, pretty much like new" in the ad.  There is literally hair inside the OTA which i'm not able to clean on top of all these above faults.  

I can certainly understand that.  



#12 Optics Patent

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 09:19 PM

I just contacted the seller with a proposal of two options:  1) refund $600 so I can send the Questar to Questar Corp. for the standard service, which also covers shipping to/from; or 2) issue a full refund and provide a prepaid shipping label so I can return the Questar to him.  

That sounds like the right proposal.  Having bought a good number of Questar scope on Ebay etc. and similarly described, one expects high standards and usually gets them.



#13 Billydee

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 10:39 PM

jag32,

 

If the seller does not agree to what you want be prepared to file a claim with PayPal.  Let them do the dirty work.  That is what the 3.3% is meant tro cover.  They usually agree with the buyer.  I would expect a refund of the price plus shipping costs.  They will make you whole, not advancing your position.

 

Bill



#14 jag32

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 10:52 PM

Here is the sellers response:

"I am sorry for the problem with this item. My excellent evaluation was based on cosmetics and that it was kept so nicely. Looking at recent sales, these usually sell closer to $2500, a new one is quite a bit more. It was insured and I will probably file a damage in shipping claim. I will consider refunding you $180 to cover the cost of the drive replacement and shipping but cannot refund $600 for a full service.
Thanks and sorry again"

So, I paid $1975 for this Questar. $1975-$180 = $1,795.

So if I accepted this offer and then sent the Questar for the standard service which would be $600 with shipping both ways, that would be $1,795+$600 = $2,395 total price for the Questar with the full standard service.

I think this seems reasonable as I would have paid $2300 or a little more for a Questar with recent service.

Not really sure why he said he would file a damage in shipping claim when the issues are clearly just from being 50 years old with no maintenance/service.

#15 jag32

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 11:01 PM

I do think it is safe buying vintage Questars on eBay and from largely unknown sellers outside the Questar community ONLY if there is documentation of a recent standard service in the last 10 or so years. I am going to accept the $180 refund which will put this Questars selling price to me at $1,795 and then I'll send it to Questar for the standard service which with shipping costs will make the total cost of this Questar $2,395.

Do you guys think this is reasonable?

#16 TomK1

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 11:37 PM

RichA,  

 

I view Takahashi refractors as one of the very few best performing/manufactured scopes.   And I always thought if someone owns a Tak, they demand the utmost in their scopes performance: the best of the best.  And anyone who buys a  Tak is willing to drop serious dollars.  So, I didn't understand why a 50 yr old Questar at a slightly lesser cost (possible wear and tear, aged coatings,  environmental degradation, older design specs" is preferred  over a brand new Questar.   To me, the exterior looks the same. I gotta believe Questar has made many "internal improvements" over the last 50 yrs which makes their current mak a better performer.  Plus, it would be new.  Which to me means it would perform the best.  At least the odds would be in the favor of the new product.  I never looked though a 3.5 inch Questar, maybe one day; an old one and a new one.

 

As for cars, well,  a Lexus suv is no tak.   Some 1960 muscle cars have visual appeal, both exterior and interior.   I find them appealing as a hobby car which I could pour a lot of love and sweat into: they'd be fun to drive and to be seen in. But if I wanted a stock car with brutal/best  performance,  I'd buy one of the following 2018's: Corvette ZR1, Porsche 911, BMW-M, Mustang GT, Camaro ZL1.  A 1960 muscle car has very little muscle/dexterity compared to today's sports cars.  I disagree with your car analogy as it tried to relate to my question.

 

My initial question meant no harm.   I assumed jag32 was willing to spend more $ than most on his equipment, so I was curious as to why a very old model was chosen over Questar's current models.   If buying used vintage at a low cost, and having the original manufacturer refurbish at a relative minimal cost to make product like new, saves money, then that is the smart thing to do.   Cool vintage hardware which performs like a current offering would be the best of both worlds.   


Edited by TomK1, 25 May 2018 - 11:45 PM.


#17 Wisconsin Steve

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 06:32 AM

I do think it is safe buying vintage Questars on eBay and from largely unknown sellers outside the Questar community ONLY if there is documentation of a recent standard service in the last 10 or so years. I am going to accept the $180 refund which will put this Questars selling price to me at $1,795 and then I'll send it to Questar for the standard service which with shipping costs will make the total cost of this Questar $2,395.

Do you guys think this is reasonable?

I would send it back for a full refund. I don't think the seller is honest if they are actually going to ask that insurance cover for "damage in shipping". They misrepresented the condition and now are not willing to back it up. Refunding $180 is a pittance in my opinion for a "like new" scope in the condition you describe. From what you are saying regarding the condition it obviously needed a full service when he listed it, even to a non Questar person.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Steve


Edited by sgorton99, 26 May 2018 - 06:32 AM.


#18 Optics Patent

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 07:08 AM

I get so steamed at the idea of people who will exaggerate the condition of items they are selling, then will happily try to resolve a justified dispute by defrauding the shipper and claiming shipping damage.

 

I also get irritated by iffy sellers whose argument is "but you got a good deal" when it sold at a fair market price with certain condition promised.

 

I think you did fine with this, and you'll never look back to these "birth pains." 

 

Before you send it to Questar, consider whether you can largely resolve any concerns that impact the enjoyment and performance.

 

The Barlow lever is almost certainly a matter of adjusting and tightening a set screw.  Or an adjustment of the boss hidden inside the lever knob needs to have its set screw loosened, and advanced slightly on the threaded shaft to increase the Barlow friction.

 

Cleaning of anything can be done with varying degrees of effort required.  Feel free to share images or descriptions of what you see in case there are any easy cleaning tricks that might apply.

 

*********************

 

In general, Ebay is an excellent source in my opinion - I've acquired ten Questars on Ebay in the last two years (not just telescopes, but each with a mirror and corrector), and have been happy with every purchase, including the one best-condition Questar I have ever seen.  Rarely is it necessary to negotiate an adjustment due to a real error or omission in the description - one had undisclosed coating failure on a BB, which would be fatal except for unusual collectability of the item.

 

I've also had good experiences on CN, AM, and Craigslist, but with rare exceptions even there - and no built-in back-up for refunds like Ebay, which I suggest may be the least "risky" buying venue if one reads the auctions carefully and knows the policies.  As it happens, one CN purchase had a documented (not so) "recent" factory service but turned out to be the only one I ever sent in for a factory drive service.

 

I should probably keep mum and let others see Ebay as risky - to keep their bids away.  For example, although I decided against it, that recent Q7 Astro in Newfoundland on EBay was offered for ~$2400 opening bid, and nobody bid.  The poor photos suggested possible coating failure, but the auction promised only "needs cleaning" plus the usual Ebay fully functional guarantee.  Good deal if only cleaning is needed, bad deal if recoating is needed.  Simple solution is to trust the seller, take delivery, then if cleaning isn't adequate ship optics to Cumberland for coating, get an opinion letter to use to resolve the Ebay claim and let the coating work be paid from the purchase price.  Which is something like buying a house that comes with a lawsuit.  I had been tempted until I realized that I would not easily be able to add the prism and control box from my now-spare barrel to upgrade it.

 

I will add that no one wants to be "that guy" who will find fault with anything and seek a price reduction.  These are used scopes and some imperfections are expected.  Only major issues like undisclosed coating failure, failed slow motion drives needing service, and major undisclosed cosmetic damage justify adjustments.

 

Finally, I'm open to the notion that there may be design improvements that newer scopes enjoy, but I haven't seen any evidence.  The acknowledged design improvements were switching optics suppliers in the 50s, widening the field at the axial port in 1964, and adopting Brandon eyepieces in 1972.  All the changes since then to my recollection have been mechanical or cosmetic, and typically ones that reduce manufacturing cost (and reduce value in my opinion - I wouldn't say "they don't make 'em like they used to" - I'd say "they can't make 'em like they used to").  Nor have I seen any "environmental degradation" or "wear and tear" that wasn't readily apparent in a sale listing or readily corrected with a routine drive service.  I grant that coatings could hypothetically degrade in performance over time, but aside from visible degradation that's easy to disclose and detect, and I have personally seen no evidence of any degradation in a good number of scopes that are 30-50 years old.

 

The comparison between classic cars and modern cars is an interesting one, because it is so inapplicable.  Motor vehicle technology has vastly advanced, while telescope technology hasn't (aside from navigation aids).  Someone with no expertise in motor vehicle technology can easily tell the performance differences between a valuable old classic and a modern machine, while even a top expert in optics and astronomical observation would be hard pressed to reliably distinguish between the operational performance of a modern Questar and a 40-year-old model.




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