127 replies to this topic

[gmartin02]

Something just doesn't seem right in the current pricing of Takahashi scopes and mounts in the us, particularly on the higher end models.

 

The prices in Hong Kong are so much less expensive than in the US.

 

Here is an example:

 

Say you want to purchase a Tak TOA-130NS and an EM-200 mount/tripod to mount it on.

 

Here is the price from a reputable US retailer for this equipment (not including shipping):

 

Tak TOA-130NS - $6500

EM-200 mount - $6690

SE-L tripod - $827

 

Total - $14017

 

Here are the same products from a reputable Hong Kong dealer (in US dollars at the current exchange rate):

 

Tak TOA-130NS - $4103
EM-200 mount - $3864

SE-L tripod - $565

 

Total - $8532

 

 

That is an $5485 difference - almost a 65% mark up of the Hong Kong price!!!

 

Of course there is an 8% import duty on imported telescopes and telescope mounts from overseas, but that only amounts to about $700, and you have to ship it too, but that can't be more than a couple of hundred dollars - still many thousands of dollars less than the US price.

 

 

You could buy round trip airfare to Hong Kong (about $600), get a hotel room for a couple of nights (and enjoy Hong Kong), buy the telescope in person, fly back with it, pay the import duties, and still spend $4000 less than buying the same equipment in the US. Of course it would be difficult to deal with an under warranty repair in this situation, but it seems like it would be a pretty good gamble. 

 

 

Something just seems like us Tak buyers in the US are being taken advantage of. Somebody is making all of that extra profit.

 

This could be due to exchange rate fluctuations, except for a) the Hong Kong dollar has been very closely tied to the US dollar for over 10  years, and b) Although the Japanese Yen is much weaker now than it was 3 years ago, it became much weaker a couple of years ago, and has been stable at the current exchange rate for about 10 months.

 

 

I am surprised that Takahashi America hasn't made some kind of a retail price adjustment in the past couple of years to accommodate this (like Deep Space Products did for imported European mounts due to exchange rate).

 

Perhaps Takahashi Japan has mandated to overseas retailers to not adjust prices due to exchange rates? This would make sense if the exchange rate fluctuations were a short period event, but now it looks more like a long term trend.

 

I'm sure Takahashi America and the US vendors know the answers to these questions, but they probably won't let us consumers know what is going on.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

[havasman]

You could buy round trip airfare to Hong Kong (about $600), get a hotel room for a couple of nights (and enjoy Hong Kong), buy the telescope in person, fly back with it, pay the import duties, and still spend $4000 less than buying the same equipment in the US. Of course it would be difficult to deal with an under warranty repair in this situation, but it seems like it would be a pretty good gamble. 

 

A friend of mine's doing exactly that. Lemonade!

[elwaine]

Good question. Maybe Art at TNR will grace us with an answer. 

[Neptune]

Anyone checked out the Takahashi eyepieces?  Seems they suffer the same type of mark up.

[rolo]

Good question. Maybe Art at TNR will grace us with an answer. 

Good luck with that one....

[AZStarGuy]

I will hazard a guess.

 

Takahashi isn't mass produced, although compared to AP and TEC etc, they may appear to be.  

 

As such, they rely on a small network of (semi)exclusive distributors in various countries who have to commit to minimums on various products at prices predetermined regardless of currency exchange rates.  Due to limited production capabilities, I imagine some of those agreements are put in place far in advance of delivery of the product.  When the dollar plummets, the vendor representing the OEM with commitments to fulfill set inventories at preset prices is left holding the bag.   

 

This in addition to what I assume are MAPs (minimum advertised prices) also probably set a year or more ago would probably create pricing discrepancies like what we see with Takahashi at the moment.  

[Star Ship]

What the market will bear.

 

Edited by Star Ship, 21 September 2015 - 11:37 PM.

[precaud]

I will hazard a guess.

 

Takahashi isn't mass produced, although compared to AP and TEC etc, they may appear to be.  

 

As such, they rely on a small network of (semi)exclusive distributors in various countries who have to commit to minimums on various products at prices predetermined regardless of currency exchange rates.  Due to limited production capabilities, I imagine some of those agreements are put in place far in advance of delivery of the product.  When the dollar plummets, the vendor representing the OEM with commitments to fulfill set inventories at preset prices is left holding the bag.   

 

 

I think you've got some things backwards here.

 

: In an market atmosphere of falling commodity prices and some countries weakening their currency to juice up exports, an importer would be foolish to commit to a price, and prepay it, well in advance of receiving the product. Such an importer will not be around very long.

 

: For a US importer, the strong dollar works to their advantage. They can either lower their resale pricing, or just enjoy the expanded profit margins if the market will bear it.

[Allan Wade]

I fly around the world for work, so can get my astro gear anywhere. I choose to buy almost everything in the U.S. mainly because it is so cheap.

 

But the Tak prices are off the hook. I pick up a TOA130 in Hong Kong soon, and I'm paying less than any second hand one I've seen on Astromart.

 

Having said that, Takahashi aside, you are all still lucky to have the biggest, best and cheapest range of astro gear on the planet.

[Aeternam]

What the market will bear.

 

This.

 

Look at it from the importer's point of view: if enough people buy at a certain price point, why lower it? To illustrate (sorry for the OT): the European Commission has just opened an investigation against Disneyland Paris (France) on the charge of nationality-based discrimination (which is quite illegal over here, hence the investigation.) This thing is still in a very early stage but the gist of it is that they are suspected to apply different rates for the same hotel room based on the average disposable income of the country of origin of their guests.

 

So I guess you have to blame the median disposable income of the average stargazer in the US

[tomcody]

  ..........   ..........   ...........   ..........    ........... 

 

You want a NEW scope but don't like Tak US prices?

Run out and buy a NEW AP or TEC scope " off the shelf " ,

Wait... there are no NEW AP or TEC scopes available " off the shelf"

Instead of a distributer and a wharehouse of new scopes.......they have waiting lists!

Edited by tomcody, 22 September 2015 - 09:51 AM.

[raal]

 

What the market will bear.

 

This.

 

Look at it from the importer's point of view: if enough people buy at a certain price point, why lower it? To illustrate (sorry for the OT): the European Commission has just opened an investigation against Disneyland Paris (France) on the charge of nationality-based discrimination (which is quite illegal over here, hence the investigation.) This thing is still in a very early stage but the gist of it is that they are suspected to apply different rates for the same hotel room based on the average disposable income of the country of origin of their guests.

 

So I guess you have to blame the median disposable income of the average stargazer in the US

 

Yield management will go to amazing lengths! I thought Airline companies are the worst of the worst, but this is simply amazing!

[SandyHouTex]

Something just doesn't seem right in the current pricing of Takahashi scopes and mounts in the us, particularly on the higher end models.

 

The prices in Hong Kong are so much less expensive than in the US.

 

Here is an example:

 

Say you want to purchase a Tak TOA-130NS and an EM-200 mount/tripod to mount it on.

 

Here is the price from a reputable US retailer for this equipment (not including shipping):

 

Tak TOA-130NS - $6500

EM-200 mount - $6690

SE-L tripod - $827

 

Total - $14017

 

Here are the same products from a reputable Hong Kong dealer (in US dollars at the current exchange rate):

 

Tak TOA-130NS - $4103
EM-200 mount - $3864

SE-L tripod - $565

 

Total - $8532

 

 

That is an $5485 difference - almost a 65% mark up of the Hong Kong price!!!

 

Of course there is an 8% import duty on imported telescopes and telescope mounts from overseas, but that only amounts to about $700, and you have to ship it too, but that can't be more than a couple of hundred dollars - still many thousands of dollars less than the US price.

 

 

You could buy round trip airfare to Hong Kong (about $600), get a hotel room for a couple of nights (and enjoy Hong Kong), buy the telescope in person, fly back with it, pay the import duties, and still spend $4000 less than buying the same equipment in the US. Of course it would be difficult to deal with an under warranty repair in this situation, but it seems like it would be a pretty good gamble. 

 

 

Something just seems like us Tak buyers in the US are being taken advantage of. Somebody is making all of that extra profit.

 

This could be due to exchange rate fluctuations, except for a) the Hong Kong dollar has been very closely tied to the US dollar for over 10  years, and b) Although the Japanese Yen is much weaker now than it was 3 years ago, it became much weaker a couple of years ago, and has been stable at the current exchange rate for about 10 months.

 

 

I am surprised that Takahashi America hasn't made some kind of a retail price adjustment in the past couple of years to accommodate this (like Deep Space Products did for imported European mounts due to exchange rate).

 

Perhaps Takahashi Japan has mandated to overseas retailers to not adjust prices due to exchange rates? This would make sense if the exchange rate fluctuations were a short period event, but now it looks more like a long term trend.

 

I'm sure Takahashi America and the US vendors know the answers to these questions, but they probably won't let us consumers know what is going on.

 

Am I missing something here?

No offense meant to Tak America, because I know them personally living in Houston and having taken my scopes to them, but it's really about gouging the American consumer.  My recommendation, buy it from overseas and have it shipped here.  There are no import fees that I'm aware of, and shipping is not all that much if done properly.  I would not hesitate purchasing it from overseas.  I've bought many eyepieces from Barry Goooley at Kokasai Kohi and I bought the APM semi-apos binoculars and a multitude of Zeiss Jena eyepieces from APM over in Europe.  Save the money!

[t.r.]

_{This has been known for many years...at least, I even knew about it back in the late 90's when traveling abroad. Without doubt, buy in Japan or other countries if able, but to say it is gouging the American consumer...you have the option to pay the markup, or not! I choose not to, others have no problem with it. it's what the market will bear apparently!}  

[mikeDnight]

It is true that Takahashi are expensive. I've known of people here in the UK fly to the US to buy a scope, so it would seem that Takahashi Europe are possibly even more expensive than the US counterpart.

For me though, I'm quite happy for Takahashi to maintain relatively high prices because then they can maintain their very high standard of optical quality. If Tak lowered their prices it would be inevitable that their reputation for optical excellence would suffer and their optics would become just good, run of the mill, offerings. As it stands Takahashi produce state of the art optics that can be bought with very little waiting time, unlike most other manufacturers, yet their optics are top of their league.

I've owned several Tak refractors and have recently bought one of their latest offerings, a FC 100DC. It is a light weight scope with a incredible true fluorite doublet lens, and costs not very much more than a standard off the shelf ED, yet it's optics are vastly superior in performance. I think it's worth paying a little extra to obtain an optical masterpiece.

 

Mike

[cam1936]

Well sounds like a pretty good excuse for a vacation to Hong Kong.


Americans have very little to complain about with this sort of gouging though. Canadians get gouged on everything. Our dollar was essentially at parity the the US dollar for 6 or so years. Everything up here was still 30% more retail, despite 0% duty on most items. Now that our dollar has slipped due to commodity prices it's really ridiculous. Take a peak at identical items on amazon.com and amazon.ca for an eye opener.

[Kunama]

 

Something just doesn't seem right in the current pricing of Takahashi scopes and mounts in the us, particularly on the higher end models.

 

The prices in Hong Kong are so much less expensive than in the US.

 

Here is an example:

 

Say you want to purchase a Tak TOA-130NS and an EM-200 mount/tripod to mount it on.

 

Here is the price from a reputable US retailer for this equipment (not including shipping):

 

Tak TOA-130NS - $6500

EM-200 mount - $6690

SE-L tripod - $827

 

Total - $14017

 

Here are the same products from a reputable Hong Kong dealer (in US dollars at the current exchange rate):

 

Tak TOA-130NS - $4103
EM-200 mount - $3864

SE-L tripod - $565

 

Total - $8532

 

 

That is an $5485 difference - almost a 65% mark up of the Hong Kong price!!!

 

Of course there is an 8% import duty on imported telescopes and telescope mounts from overseas, but that only amounts to about $700, and you have to ship it too, but that can't be more than a couple of hundred dollars - still many thousands of dollars less than the US price.

 

 

You could buy round trip airfare to Hong Kong (about $600), get a hotel room for a couple of nights (and enjoy Hong Kong), buy the telescope in person, fly back with it, pay the import duties, and still spend $4000 less than buying the same equipment in the US. Of course it would be difficult to deal with an under warranty repair in this situation, but it seems like it would be a pretty good gamble. 

 

 

Something just seems like us Tak buyers in the US are being taken advantage of. Somebody is making all of that extra profit.

 

This could be due to exchange rate fluctuations, except for a) the Hong Kong dollar has been very closely tied to the US dollar for over 10  years, and b) Although the Japanese Yen is much weaker now than it was 3 years ago, it became much weaker a couple of years ago, and has been stable at the current exchange rate for about 10 months.

 

 

I am surprised that Takahashi America hasn't made some kind of a retail price adjustment in the past couple of years to accommodate this (like Deep Space Products did for imported European mounts due to exchange rate).

 

Perhaps Takahashi Japan has mandated to overseas retailers to not adjust prices due to exchange rates? This would make sense if the exchange rate fluctuations were a short period event, but now it looks more like a long term trend.

 

I'm sure Takahashi America and the US vendors know the answers to these questions, but they probably won't let us consumers know what is going on.

 

Am I missing something here?

No offense meant to Tak America, because I know them personally living in Houston and having taken my scopes to them, but it's really about gouging the American consumer.  My recommendation, buy it from overseas and have it shipped here.  There are no import fees that I'm aware of, and shipping is not all that much if done properly.  I would not hesitate purchasing it from overseas.  I've bought many eyepieces from Barry Goooley at Kokasai Kohi and I bought the APM semi-apos binoculars and a multitude of Zeiss Jena eyepieces from APM over in Europe.  Save the money!

 

Just be prepared to ship it back to Japan, Hong Kong etc in the event that it is damaged in transit or needs servicing as the USA agent is under no obligation to deal with any problems that may arise ..........

These are optical instruments handled by gorillas in transit, things do sometime go wrong.......   Food for thought?

[Scott in NC]

And as Matt alluded to above, that's really what you're paying for when you buy through an authorized dealer in your home country.  You're paying to keep a small company in business that will be there to assist you with issues that develop under warranty, and also issues that may develop long after any warranty has expired.

[Danny206]

It is true that Takahashi are expensive. I've known of people here in the UK fly to the US to buy a scope, so it would seem that Takahashi Europe are possibly even more expensive than the US counterpart.

For me though, I'm quite happy for Takahashi to maintain relatively high prices because then they can maintain their very high standard of optical quality. If Tak lowered their prices it would be inevitable that their reputation for optical excellence would suffer and their optics would become just good, run of the mill, offerings. As it stands Takahashi produce state of the art optics that can be bought with very little waiting time, unlike most other manufacturers, yet their optics are top of their league.

I've owned several Tak refractors and have recently bought one of their latest offerings, a FC 100DC. It is a light weight scope with a incredible true fluorite doublet lens, and costs not very much more than a standard off the shelf ED, yet it's optics are vastly superior in performance. I think it's worth paying a little extra to obtain an optical masterpiece.

 

Mike

this would depend on if that premium that Tak gets in the USA goes right back into Tak's research and development budget. But as it is, Tak is already getting what they get in other countries for their scopes in the USA, and the premium is going to the importer after duties, transit fees of course.

[Scott99]

And as Matt alluded to above, that's really what you're paying for when you buy through an authorized dealer in your home country.  You're paying to keep a small company in business that will be there to assist you with issues that develop under warranty, and also issues that may develop long after any warranty has expired.

 

that's a good point - I guess the question is why are dealers in some countries able to sell the scopes at a fraction of the US dealer?   Hong Kong is in China, not Japan.   The US price of the FC76 is nearly double the Hong Kong price.

 

I would guess that a 50% or higher markup is going to reduce sales volume by a large degree.  For small refractors and eyepiece a markup like that could reduce sales by 90%.  Just a guess but most consumers don't have the luxury of paying double for something.  US astronomers are going to buy something other than USA Takahashi.

 

I think most people would choose to support a US company every time if the price was even close, but these disparities are huge.  I remember about 10 years ago, just before the FS series ended, Tak's US prices plunged over a year or two.  I suspect something like that is going to happen again.

 

If the price difference on a Mewlon from Japan is several thousand dollars, that can pay for multiple air trips back to Japan for servicing - if it ever needs service.  How long can peoples' good will hold out under than kind of price pressure…not long.  Smaller scopes and other stuff can be air-shipped for $100 or less.    A lot of people have seen their jobs moved out to India or China by the global economy, and we're expecting them to ignore a lower price overseas and pay an inflated US price?  As a businessperson I don't think that's a good business plan.

 

Another problem for Tak is that the equipment on the used market was purchased when prices were lower.  Now that gear is available much cheaper that new, that's going to eat into sales as well.

Edited by Scott99, 22 September 2015 - 10:36 PM.

[nicknacknock]

I got my TAK FC76DC from Intercon Spacetec in Europe for EUR 1,574. Taking out VAT and converting to USD = $1,500. Just checked OPT and it is $1,949.

 

So, there is a solid discrepancy even with Europe, where we usually buy our gear much more expensively. Shipping from Germany to the US is about $50 so there is a sizable saving there of $400. This is very atypical as usually it is the other way round.

 

Not that I am complaining in this particular instance!     

[Bill Barlow]

I guess the best value in the USA is to buy Tak scopes on the used market.  Most owners take very good care of these refractors and most are in like new/mint condition from what I have seen.  I have an excellent optically SV 90TBV fluorite triplet, but the only scope that I am thinking of trying out someday is one of the newer Tak 100mm f7.4 lightweight fluorite doublets, buying one used.

 

Bill

[RichA]

What the market will bear.

European VAT-added prices...without the VAT.  It's a world market, bypass the Americans on this.

[nicknacknock]

Rich,

 

I adjusted the price for our US brethren to show that it is still much more expensive in the US...

[orlyandico]

I always wondered about the HK prices.  Literally all Tak stuff is cheaper in HK than US astromart used prices. Haven't actually bought a Tak from the HK shop but I have bought other things from him.

 

I really should get that Mewlon I always wanted...