25 replies to this topic

[ei001h]

Hello, I'm new to Cloudy Nights, seems like a solid source of information. Was hoping to get some help with my first telescope.

I'm interested in visual astronomy and decided to get a quality refractor. Astrophotography would be a plus, but not essential at this point. I own 7x35 binoculars and have been limited by power. I'm interested in astronomy, but would not even call myself an amateur yet. So far I've found jupiter, venus, m31 and pleiades with my binoculars without using any charts. Was hoping to see more with a more powerful instrument. There are no astronomy clubs near me. I would like a high end refractor, my budget is 2-5k. My preferences are:

 

1. Refractor. Objective lens 60 to 90mm. Would like something super portable.  I'm intrigued by Takahashi sky 90 ii and cb60.

2. Must be portable and easy to set up. Something that could be used on a small mount and be stored on the mount in my living room and easily transported in my SUV.

3. I would like to use it for both astronomy and as a spotting scope during the day. About 50/50.  Ease of use is essential.

4. Have not decided which mount to get, something simple at first, and eventually get an equatorial goto mount. Will appreciate advice on mounts after I get the telescope.

5. Also looking at Leica televid 77 and 82 with zoom eyepieces. How are these as astronomy tools ? Is there a big difference in the old 77mm vs 82?



So far my favorite telescope that meets most of my needs is Sky-90 version ii. I know they've been discontinued, and I know their reputation is less than perfect, but its small size, relatively large objective lens and portability are very impressive. Where can I find one for sale? Also, how would this scope be different from cb60? both positives and negatives. Concerning leica spotting scope,  how greatly is it limited for astronomy when compared to the above Taks? Would you say 77mm leica televid is about the same quality as the 82mm? vs. Taks mentioned above? I've read about Tak 76mm, but think its too big/long for my taste. I plan on observing planets, the moon and major deep sky objects, m31, orion, etc. Nothing too great for now. Just to get into the hobby. I have almost no experience in the field, any advice will be much appreciated. 

Edward

[Roland David]

Hi Edward,

 

Did you consider the Televue 85?

 

It is a high quality instrument, very portable. It is an astronomy telescope but can be use in daytime as a spotting scope as well.  And the price is within your budget.

 

For the mount, there is many possibilities and Televue sell specific one for this scope if you wish to, equipped or not with a push to computer.

 

It has a very good resale value and easy to sell, so If you wish to upgrade later on, you will recover a large part of your investment.

 

I own one and I really like it pretty much.  It is a 10 minutes set up and I am ready to observe from my backyard.

 

Good luck!

Edited by Roland David, 17 February 2017 - 06:38 PM.

[dr.who]

That 30mm difference is a big one. With that said and since the Sky90 is discontinued and you said "AP" I would suggest the FSQ-85. I have one and while it is not as svelte as the 60 it is a very very nice grab and go scope that can ride on a very light weight tripod and with a corrected prism diagonal be used as a spotting scope.

[photoracer18]

I only recommend spotting scopes as astro telescopes for emergencies or when something with a simple mount needs to do double duty. You have a much larger selection of power with an astro telescope verses a spotting scope, even one that uses astro eyepieces like a Pentax PF-80ED for instance. Plus spotting scopes have the equivalent of Amici prism erect image diagonals which because of the added reflections in the prism reduce contrast over a good astro telescope with a single reflecting surface diagonal. A decent 80mm astro telescope can still make a useful spotting scope when paired with an erect image diagonal and a zoom eyepiece.
A 90mm scope has significantly more resolving power than a 60mm scope. A 50% larger objective is like 3x the light gathering power if I remember correctly. For DSO you need a decently wide field for extended objects and for planets you need magnification. Spotting scopes usually stop at 60x or even 80x when for planets even an 80mm telescope can do around 200x if the sky conditions are good, and you will need at least 150x for everything but the Moon (although I use more to see specific areas). You can pickup an name brand 80mm ED/APO for around $500 or less and even the best 80mm scope money can buy will only be about 10-15% better. That 10-15% is what an imager might want but for visual work the difference is not a lot. A Sky 90 II would be a fine all around scope if that is what you can afford. I used to sell and repair telescopes for a dealer who sold Taks, Stellarvues, Celestrons and Meades among others. I will tell you what I told every customer that want to listen: whatever scope you buy first, within 6 months it won't be the right one 9 times out of 10. Once you do a lot of different things to start with you will usually find out what you want to do is not what your present scope does best.

[ei001h]

Hi Edward,

 

Did you consider the Televue 85?

 

It is a high quality instrument, very portable. It is an astronomy telescope but can be use in daytime as a spotting scope as well.  And the price is within your budget.

 

For the mount, there is many possibilities and Televue sell specific one for this scope if you wish to, equipped or not with a push to computer.

 

It has a very good resale value and easy to sell, so If you wish to upgrade later on, you will recover a large part of your investment.

 

I own one and I really like it pretty much.  It is a 10 minutes set up and I am ready to observe from my backyard.

 

Good luck!

Televue 85 was the first scope I considered. But I was under the impression it was much larger than Tak 90 or 60. It is still under consideration for me. What would a new 85 cost me with a couple good eyepieces, mount and accessories i would need to start out? Approximately 

[samovu]

Hello, I'm new to Cloudy Nights, seems like a solid source of information. Was hoping to get some help with my first telescope.

I'm interested in visual astronomy and decided to get a quality refractor. Astrophotography would be a plus, but not essential at this point. I own 7x35 binoculars and have been limited by power. I'm interested in astronomy, but would not even call myself an amateur yet. So far I've found jupiter, venus, m31 and pleiades with my binoculars without using any charts. Was hoping to see more with a more powerful instrument. There are no astronomy clubs near me. I would like a high end refractor, my budget is 2-5k. My preferences are:

 

1. Refractor. Objective lens 60 to 90mm. Would like something super portable.  I'm intrigued by Takahashi sky 90 ii and cb60.

2. Must be portable and easy to set up. Something that could be used on a small mount and be stored on the mount in my living room and easily transported in my SUV.

3. I would like to use it for both astronomy and as a spotting scope during the day. About 50/50.  Ease of use is essential.

4. Have not decided which mount to get, something simple at first, and eventually get an equatorial goto mount. Will appreciate advice on mounts after I get the telescope.

5. Also looking at Leica televid 77 and 82 with zoom eyepieces. How are these as astronomy tools ? Is there a big difference in the old 77mm vs 82?



So far my favorite telescope that meets most of my needs is Sky-90 version ii. I know they've been discontinued, and I know their reputation is less than perfect, but its small size, relatively large objective lens and portability are very impressive. Where can I find one for sale? Also, how would this scope be different from cb60? both positives and negatives. Concerning leica spotting scope,  how greatly is it limited for astronomy when compared to the above Taks? Would you say 77mm leica televid is about the same quality as the 82mm? vs. Taks mentioned above? I've read about Tak 76mm, but think its too big/long for my taste. I plan on observing planets, the moon and major deep sky objects, m31, orion, etc. Nothing too great for now. Just to get into the hobby. I have almost no experience in the field, any advice will be much appreciated. 

Edward

Edward, welcome to CN!

 

You have quite a bit on your wishlist and I believe you need two 'scopes'.  Not in the same order but I too at a time thought about a high end spotter as dual use.

 

There's a _huge_ difference in weight and also size between the 60CB and the 90 II. And light gathering and resolving power. I have both and for planets the Sky 90 with extender-q work great. And I'd not want to take the Sky 90 out into the wet. 

 

And after comparing the various waterproof spotters around, I ended up with a Pentax PF-80ED and like the fact that I can use any of my short focal length eyepieces.

 

Whatever you get, enjoy!

 

Again, welcome. 

 

Cheers,

John

[ei001h]

I only recommend spotting scopes as astro telescopes for emergencies or when something with a simple mount needs to do double duty. You have a much larger selection of power with an astro telescope verses a spotting scope, even one that uses astro eyepieces like a Pentax PF-80ED for instance. Plus spotting scopes have the equivalent of Amici prism erect image diagonals which because of the added reflections in the prism reduce contrast over a good astro telescope with a single reflecting surface diagonal. A decent 80mm astro telescope can still make a useful spotting scope when paired with an erect image diagonal and a zoom eyepiece.
A 90mm scope has significantly more resolving power than a 60mm scope. A 50% larger objective is like 3x the light gathering power if I remember correctly. For DSO you need a decently wide field for extended objects and for planets you need magnification. Spotting scopes usually stop at 60x or even 80x when for planets even an 80mm telescope can do around 200x if the sky conditions are good, and you will need at least 150x for everything but the Moon (although I use more to see specific areas). You can pickup an name brand 80mm ED/APO for around $500 or less and even the best 80mm scope money can buy will only be about 10-15% better. That 10-15% is what an imager might want but for visual work the difference is not a lot. A Sky 90 II would be a fine all around scope if that is what you can afford. I used to sell and repair telescopes for a dealer who sold Taks, Stellarvues, Celestrons and Meades among others. I will tell you what I told every customer that want to listen: whatever scope you buy first, within 6 months it won't be the right one 9 times out of 10. Once you do a lot of different things to start with you will usually find out what you want to do is not what your present scope does best.

Thank you for the reply. It seems a dedicated astronomy telescope is what I need. How would Tak 60 perform for planetary and deep sky objects? Should I avoid this and go for Tak 85 or Televue 85? 

[ei001h]

I have both a Sky90 and an FS-60. Both are superb OTAs with very sharp optics with the FS-60 being a little bit sharper. However, for visual use I much prefer the Sky90 simply because of its greater light gathering ability. This means I can use higher power with the Sky90 which results in greater detail.

 

When I had both out the other night, I could use about 50x on the Sky90 to view lots of popular DSOs. But, on the FS-60, in order to see them (and not be too dim) I had to use about 30x. (The exit pupils were essentially the same on both.) This, of course, meant the targets where smaller and less detailed. Both are small and very portable.  I use the Takahashi Lapides AltAz mount with both on photographic tripods. Very nice setups.

 

The only reason I have both is that I got the FS-60 mostly for astrophotography. If I had to choose just one, it would be the Sky90 without a doubt. It is a superb grab-n-go. Hope this helps.

If sky 90 was available right now I would get it without a doubt. What do you think of Tak FSQ 85? How does it compare to sky 90? Is it much heavier? How many eye pieces would I need to start out with either telescope? Any idea where I can find a used Sky 90? 

[samovu]

IMO, the FS-60 won't work for planetary, and that includes the Q version with the longer focal length. You need higher magnification, usually, and the ability to "see" detail, larger scopes are better at this. And 90mm wins hands down when it comes to light gathering.

 

I second what StarryHill mentioned. I'll add that the Sky 90 makes for an ideal travel scope. Thirteen inches long and great with the extender-q. 

 

Cheers,

John

[ei001h]

 

Hello, I'm new to Cloudy Nights, seems like a solid source of information. Was hoping to get some help with my first telescope.

I'm interested in visual astronomy and decided to get a quality refractor. Astrophotography would be a plus, but not essential at this point. I own 7x35 binoculars and have been limited by power. I'm interested in astronomy, but would not even call myself an amateur yet. So far I've found jupiter, venus, m31 and pleiades with my binoculars without using any charts. Was hoping to see more with a more powerful instrument. There are no astronomy clubs near me. I would like a high end refractor, my budget is 2-5k. My preferences are:

 

1. Refractor. Objective lens 60 to 90mm. Would like something super portable.  I'm intrigued by Takahashi sky 90 ii and cb60.

2. Must be portable and easy to set up. Something that could be used on a small mount and be stored on the mount in my living room and easily transported in my SUV.

3. I would like to use it for both astronomy and as a spotting scope during the day. About 50/50.  Ease of use is essential.

4. Have not decided which mount to get, something simple at first, and eventually get an equatorial goto mount. Will appreciate advice on mounts after I get the telescope.

5. Also looking at Leica televid 77 and 82 with zoom eyepieces. How are these as astronomy tools ? Is there a big difference in the old 77mm vs 82?



So far my favorite telescope that meets most of my needs is Sky-90 version ii. I know they've been discontinued, and I know their reputation is less than perfect, but its small size, relatively large objective lens and portability are very impressive. Where can I find one for sale? Also, how would this scope be different from cb60? both positives and negatives. Concerning leica spotting scope,  how greatly is it limited for astronomy when compared to the above Taks? Would you say 77mm leica televid is about the same quality as the 82mm? vs. Taks mentioned above? I've read about Tak 76mm, but think its too big/long for my taste. I plan on observing planets, the moon and major deep sky objects, m31, orion, etc. Nothing too great for now. Just to get into the hobby. I have almost no experience in the field, any advice will be much appreciated. 

Edward

Edward, welcome to CN!

 

You have quite a bit on your wishlist and I believe you need two 'scopes'.  Not in the same order but I too at a time thought about a high end spotter as dual use.

 

There's a _huge_ difference in weight and also size between the 60CB and the 90 II. And light gathering and resolving power. I have both and for planets the Sky 90 with extender-q work great. And I'd not want to take the Sky 90 out into the wet. 

 

And after comparing the various waterproof spotters around, I ended up with a Pentax PF-80ED and like the fact that I can use any of my short focal length eyepieces.

 

Whatever you get, enjoy!

 

Again, welcome. 

 

Cheers,

John

 

Is sky 90 without extender not good for observation? What are the benefits of the extender Q? 

[samovu]

Sorry, no, it's not needed for viewing. For planets, usually, for wide field views, never. The Sky 90 is natively a "fast" scope. 

 

The extender increases the the focal length by a factor of 1.6. 

 

Cheers,

John

Edited by samovu, 17 February 2017 - 09:02 PM.

[martinl]

I love my TV85, but I wouldn't consider anything smaller for astronomy. At the same time I find it a bit too large and heavy for nature viewing that involves any hiking. Also, while it is built like a tank, it is not weather sealed and I would hesitate to use it if there is any chance of rain. 

 

I think you'll be best served by two telescopes. With your budget, and interest in Takahashi, I would consider a Takahashi FC100DF or FC100DC for astronomy and a decent spotting scope for nature. 

[visual-companion]

Hello Edward,

 

since you want to use your telescope for 50% daytime use I'd consider the Leica Televid 82 with the Leica 1.8x extender for the following reasons:

-more robust than a Takahashi scope

-easier to use

-image orientation

 

The Leica WW zoom eyepiece has really good astronomy reviews and can also be adapted to e.g. a Takahashi.

 

Please note that you will have to make a compromise with your requirement of both daytime and nighttime use. A spotting scope has the disadvantage that your exit pupil is not as variable, e.g. the Leica Televid with the zoom eyepiece gives you a maximum exit pupil of 3.3mm. For faint objects like nebulae you might want to use your 7x35 binoculars, which give you a 5mm exit pupil. With e.g. 8x56 binoculars you have an exit pupil of 7mm which makes sense in really dark skies. Also the spotting scope does not have a 90° angle of the eyepiece. Therefore it will be a bit wakward to watch objects in the zenith.

 

CS,

Marcus

[n2068dd]

Hi,
I vote Sky90.Aperture 90 and short tube looks good. A past review of Japese magazine rated exellent on both planet and photo.The reviewer had written extender Q never add spherical abberations to the prime images on sky90.

[Fomalhaut]

Hi,

Having owned a Sky-90 and still owning a FS-60CB, I do not recommend the first one, mainly because it's focal ratio does just not allow for full usage of typical 90mm contrast possible for a longer 90mm.

The FS60 is a very nice little scope with many possible and useful accessories.
Mine has meanwhile got the dedicated "Reducer C 0.72x" which transforms it into an excellent little astro-camera (f.l. 255mm, f/4.25).

I you want to go bigger with having also AP in mind, then I would recommend the not so light but nevertheless very portable FSQ-85. A friend of mine uses FSQ-106 for AP and FSQ-85 just for visual and likes it a lot for that.

The also very good TV-85 is quite a bit longer than FSQ-85, the latter of which I personally would prefer.

Chris

Edited by Fomalhaut, 18 February 2017 - 05:21 AM.

[Paul G]

Is sky 90 without extender not good for observation? What are the benefits of the extender Q? 

 

 

In their exhaustive review of the Sky 90 Temmon Guide said the extender Q improved the color correction of the scope to the level of the FS series. They said it was a must have.

 

AFAIK the magazine is no longer being published. I have the issue with the article but am unsure of the legalities of posting it here given the magazine is kaput. Someone translated the article to English for me and posted it on the UncensoredTak group but took it down after this concern was raised, at that time the magazine was still being published.

[n2068dd]

 

Is sky 90 without extender not good for observation? What are the benefits of the extender Q? 

 

 

In their exhaustive review of the Sky 90 Temmon Guide said the extender Q improved the color correction of the scope to the level of the FS series. They said it was a must have.

 

AFAIK the magazine is no longer being published. I have the issue with the article but am unsure of the legalities of posting it here given the magazine is kaput. Someone translated the article to English for me and posted it on the UncensoredTak group but took it down after this concern was raised, at that time the magazine was still being published.

 

Hi,

maybe,this book

天体望遠鏡徹底ガイドブック―光学系分析と実写テスト 西條 善弘

there, full of detailed graph on sky90. the data was supplied from Takahashi. it's not revers engineering.

maybe you can buy at amazon.it looks new book can't buy.

[waso29]

side note, march 2017 tenmon guide is available in japan.

 

have you considered new fc76df?

[StarDust1]

As of planetary performance you might consider the Takahashi FC-100DF. The FC100DF will perform better then the Sky90. The Sky90 that I had didn't provide me with the views (details) that the FC-100DF gives.

 

The FC60CB is nice as a complementary scope next to FC-100DF.

Edited by StarDust1, 18 February 2017 - 07:53 AM.

[nicknacknock]

If you must have 90mm and fluorite, there is another option. The Borg 90FL has the same optical prescription as the Sky 90 II. Doublet fluorite, same specs, made by same factory that made the Sky 90 lenses - Canon Optron. Very light and tons of acccessories to use with the scope.

 

[CHASLX200]

 

Hi Edward,

 

Did you consider the Televue 85?

 

It is a high quality instrument, very portable. It is an astronomy telescope but can be use in daytime as a spotting scope as well.  And the price is within your budget.

 

For the mount, there is many possibilities and Televue sell specific one for this scope if you wish to, equipped or not with a push to computer.

 

It has a very good resale value and easy to sell, so If you wish to upgrade later on, you will recover a large part of your investment.

 

I own one and I really like it pretty much.  It is a 10 minutes set up and I am ready to observe from my backyard.

 

Good luck!

Televue 85 was the first scope I considered. But I was under the impression it was much larger than Tak 90 or 60. It is still under consideration for me. What would a new 85 cost me with a couple good eyepieces, mount and accessories i would need to start out? Approximately 

 

Used around 2.5K or so.

Edited by CHASLX200, 18 February 2017 - 10:29 AM.

[Paul G]

side note, march 2017 tenmon guide is available in japan.

Excellent! Their reviews are VERY detailed. If still being published it's probably not kosher to post a copy of the old review article.

Edited by Paul G, 18 February 2017 - 12:10 PM.

[skullpin]

Borg 89ED or 90FL. Resistance is futile.

 

Keith

[ei001h]

Borg 89ED or 90FL. Resistance is futile.

 

Keith

How does Borg compare in quality, reputation and resale value to Takahashi? 

[mlanglois]

+1 with Nick and Keith... I have a Borg 90FL that is the perfect grab and go scope. It is used as an astro scope and a daytime spotter. I travel everywhere with it since it is collapsible and very light weight (and it disassembles if you need to get it even smaller). The optical quality is excellent, and I say this after setting it up night after night next to my AP 130. It is also an excellent instrument for photography because of it's modular nature and all the optional accessories available. Check out Ted Ishikawa's blog, Digiborg, he's got tons of great images posted. It's not the smallest/lightest scope possible, it's not the best visual scope and it's not the best ap scope, but, it's a pretty close second in all cases. In my opinion, it's the best scope currently available that meets your criteria.

 

Michael