What Would You Do (Astro-Physics Parts Missing)

I purchased a used Mach 1 with an Eagle Pier. Both the Mach 1 and Eagle pier was described as in new condition. I told the seller that the items have to be as described and if there were any marks at all to let me know before I commit to the deal. He replied, the only marks were on the leg slots where the knobs tightened. He said the metal is soft and the marks were inevitable. To make it short, I accepted the deal and received the package.

I noticed that the tripod leg knobs were missing and bolts were used in it's place. I should have known that AP would not design the knobs in such a way as to score the aluminum.
I contacted the seller and informed him about this and told him about the knobs missing. I also mentioned that, if the correct knobs were used there would be no scoring. All I wanted was for him to order the correct knobs and send them to me, that's all.

Days later I noticed an ad on Amart for AP knobs from the same seller. He was asking for the knobs that connects the mount to the pier. Obviously these were the wrong knobs so I sent him a msg telling him so. He told me he was busy and would deal with it later in the week. Ok, he had a fairly good reason so I told him I would contact AP and deal with it myself and send him the bill. If I were the seller, I would have been on the phone with AP the very next day and had the knobs shipped over night regardless of the cost.

I truly don't think he was hiding anything, or meant to mislead me in any way. Some people just don't understand mechanics at all and I believe this is the case here. However, if he had sold this to someone else, they would calling Paypal for a complete refund based on the marks alone. Thankfully the Mach 1 is almost pristine, well aside from a tiny mark.

I contacted Astro-Physics on Tues last week and didn't hear back from them after few days so I emailed again and left a phone msg. I received an email telling they were swamped had didn't have time to deal with it right now. Well it's Sat and still nothing. I'm not feeling the stellar service.

I'm getting ticked at this point. I've had this mount for 1.5 weeks and I still don't know the status of replacemnet knobs, even if they can be purchased or not. I'm passing the responsibility of finding the knobs back to the seller.

What would you tell him?

Thanks
Faron

It should be like this

You could figure out the thread type from the bolts and find some knobs yourself.

http://www.mcmaster....t-knobs/=k09d5y

I agree that the seller was clueless.

JimC

Thanks Jim, I know I can go purchase bolts and knobs. I want them to be AP as they should be.
The seller is a nice guy, I don't want to insult him either. I just want to make it happen soon. It's like buying a beautiful Ferrari and they forgot to send the wheel nuts.

Faron

I contacted Astro-Physics on Tues last week and didn't hear back from them after few days so I emailed again and left a phone msg. I received an email telling they were swamped had didn't have time to deal with it right now. Well it's Sat and still nothing. I'm not feeling the stellar service.

I'm getting ticked at this point. I've had this mount for 1.5 weeks and I still don't know the status of replacemnet knobs, even if they can be purchased or not. I'm passing the responsibility of finding the knobs back to the seller.

What would you tell him?

Thanks
Faron

Forget e-mail. Call Astro-Physics directly during their office hours. They are incredibly responsive. Get Christine or Daleen, one of whom usually answer the phone depending on the day and time, and they will figure out the part number. If they cannot help directly, they will either ask Howard or Wally if they are around, or Marj or Roland and get the info from them. Daleen or Christine will then look up the parts to see if they are available off the shelf, and cost.
Yes, they have been busy recently, shipping some more AP175's. Three or four of them were also at AIC I think so that didn't leave too many people in the office to take care of things . . .

Find out what they cost, order them and then tell the seller to send you the money for remimbursement.
Blueman

+1 to Blueman's response. To be honest, it's a little thing. Something to get angry about but maybe not get completely worked up about? You're talking about 50-100 bucks worth of parts on a 5500 (used) mount, and that doesn't include the pier.

My guess is the guy didn't even realize the parts were missing when he sold it. But, he's probably a little embarrassed now and not quite sure what to do.

Personally, I'd order the parts, see if he'd reimburse me for it, and if he didn't I wouldn't be too upset about it since I still got the mount at quite a discount. Assuming the rest of it is in good condition.

Good luck,
Chris

Come on, he said in like new condition and there is no way that a guy would not know that the knobs were suppose to be there. If you buy that kind of stuff, you know exactly what it is suppose to look like.
Blueman

Now I just wonder what happened to the original knobs. I'm not sure why they would have been taken off.

-Rich

+1 to Blueman's response. To be honest, it's a little thing. Something to get angry about but maybe not get completely worked up about? You're talking about 50-100 bucks worth of parts on a 5500 (used) mount, and that doesn't include the pier.

My guess is the guy didn't even realize the parts were missing when he sold it. But, he's probably a little embarrassed now and not quite sure what to do.

Personally, I'd order the parts, see if he'd reimburse me for it, and if he didn't I wouldn't be too upset about it since I still got the mount at quite a discount. Assuming the rest of it is in good condition.

Good luck,
Chris

What makes you think I got quite the discount? I paid a stiff price for this. Because it was used two or three times only. I know it is only knobs but I want Astro-physics knobs, only.

Based on that photo it looks like it was used at least 7 times after the original knobs were lost. I'd be trying to get at least a small partial refund for all this trouble.

What makes you think I got quite the discount? I paid a stiff price for this. Because it was used two or three times only. I know it is only knobs but I want Astro-physics knobs, only.

And I don't blame you. I'd think these knobs would be available from AP for a nominal cost and without much delay. But if this situation galls you as much as it seems to -- and you didn't "get quite the discount" -- I'd consider unwinding the deal so you don't have bad thoughts every time you use the mount.

The seller clearly has the responsibility to deliver a *complete* mount. And for one used "two or three times only" it sure exhibits a high rate of parts lost per use: It could be jinxed

Phil, it's not as bad as it seems. Once I get the knobs I'll never look back. I don't want a discount either. The setup is still in excellent almost like new condition otherwise. Little things like this don't seem to bother some people, they would go to home depot and slap a set of 5/16 toilet bolts on it and be done with it. Some others guys that I've met in this hobby would be shipping the whole kit back. I'm somewhere in the middle. I love astronomy and I love the gear just as much. I'm more ticked about the nonchalant way he was dealing with this.

Faron

Find out what they cost, order them and then tell the seller to send you the money for remimbursement.
Blueman

+1.

I'm REALLY picky about my stuff so I can empathize, this seems like the quickest way to resolve the issue and get you up and running. I've called AP during their office hours more times than I can count and have always reached a helpful live person.

Washers and bolts. Bring it to hardware store and they'll get everything right.

You can use it safely as is in the fully extended position, I just wouldn't leave it unattended where some passerby could kick it. (I wouldn't leave my stuff out unattended anyway).

Eventually things will be made right but yeesh you didn't have to wait until that time to use your mount!

Did you jinx it by putting it in your signature before receiving it? If so misspelling astro-physics did not make the equipment gods smile favorably on you

The loss of these knobs is perplexing to me ... They aren't small, easily misplaced parts. The functionality of the Eagle other than being fully extended, is seriously crippled with these knobs taken off. I'd want ONLY AP replacements... their loss directly affects the mount's usability and value.

What's really bizarre is if the guy didn't even realize these were the knobs you were talking about, is he actually the owner?

I would only put the right AP parts on. But with the cost of an eagle pier, this treatment just floors me. The way the pier is designed, these don't have to come off. What the heck has he been doing with it?

I'd have to tell him he has something to get right and his ad wasn't truthful.

If this wasn't at a meaningful discount, I'd demand a refund and return it. Brand new Mach 1s are currently available at AP.

-Rich

If you didn't get a deal, buy new. They're readily available as others have stated.

If the person isn't meeting your expectations, ship it back and file a paypal complaint.

Good luck!
Chris

What makes you think I got quite the discount? I paid a stiff price for this. Because it was used two or three times only. I know it is only knobs but I want Astro-physics knobs, only.

What did the pics in the ad look like? Did they show the tripod WITH the proper knobs or not?

Did you phone Astro-Physics or not? If not, you are just p****g into the wind here.

Just a few comments:

There seems to be a couple of knobs available from Astro-Physics. It is not totally clear to me what is stock but as far as I can make out, there are the original "plastic knobs" and the $55 upgraded M1485KBKIT which are machined aluminum.

Astro-Physics Knob kit

My guess is that the standard knobs are the plastic knobs that press on to a 1/4-20 socket head screw though in the photo they appear to be something larger.

McMaster-Carr: Press on Plastic Cap Screw Head, Rosette Style 1/4-20

If these or something similar were indeed the standard for the mount, I suspect head was removed so that the screw could be tightened with a hex key rather than the knob.

The damage could have been caused by the leg slipping due to the inability to tighten the screw with the cap head, thus the removal of the cap head. This points to the real problem, there should be a washer underneath the screw head to spread the load. This is what caused the damage.

The upgraded knobs allow you tighten them with a hex key...

The problem here is aesthetic and interpersonal. A mount described as "in new condition" should not have those damage marks. A less than perfect rating would seem to be appropriate.

Jon

Hi Jon, thank you for the thoughtful reply, and to the others as well. The reason for this post was to get some opinions on the tripod marks not so much on purchasing the knobs(the knobs are $7.00 each by the way). The marks were described as normal due to the metal being soft when, in fact, the marks are from the original owner using bolts instead of knobs. I was contemplating sending the tripod back to him and ordering a new one since it was misrepresented. I needed a little help making up my mind. I picked up some 5/16" bolts and knobs but they were hard plastic and may actually slip as the temps drop. AP knobs are rubberized and grip really well and do not leave impressions marks as in the photo.

At the time of the post, I was disappointed the marks were there due to negligence and NOT from normal use. Since then everything has been worked out, the knobs are on the way. I've accepted the fact that the marks are there. I'm not asking for compensation, I'm going to use this kit and enjoy it

Any future post regarding this mount, surely will be about alignment procedures
Let's close this one.

Thanks,
Faron

Faron,
That's a positive attitude to take and I hope your Mach1 performs up to its capabilities. You've got a great combo there (Tak / AP) ... Good luck!

At the time of the post, I was disappointed the marks were there due to negligence and NOT from normal use. Since then everything has been worked out, the knobs are on the way. I've accepted the fact that the marks are there. I'm not asking for compensation, I'm going to use this kit and enjoy it

The key to avoiding marks is making sure there is a sufficiently thick washer under the fastener... The washer not only spreads the load but acts as a bearing to isolate the twisting of the bolt head from the leg.

Jon

At the time of the post, I was disappointed the marks were there due to negligence and NOT from normal use. Since then everything has been worked out, the knobs are on the way. I've accepted the fact that the marks are there. I'm not asking for compensation, I'm going to use this kit and enjoy it

The key to avoiding marks is making sure there is a sufficiently thick washer under the fastener... The washer not only spreads the load but acts as a bearing to isolate the twisting of the bolt head from the leg.

Jon

I'm not sure exactly what knobs are referred to, but A-P supplies washers for their knobs that hold the mount to the adapter plate. And, because the washers are 'punched' out of raw material and have a bit of curve to them, they tell you in the manual which side to face down to prevent making marks. Attention to detail, no?

edit: BTW, both my mounts were bought used and showed marking from the washers being used inproperly. Less attention to detail by the original owners.

I'm not sure exactly what knobs are referred to, but A-P supplies washers for their knobs that hold the mount to the adapter plate. And, because the washers are 'punched' out of raw material and have a bit of curve to them, they tell you in the manual which side to face down to prevent making marks. Attention to detail, no?

edit: BTW, both my mounts were bought used and showed marking from the washers being used inproperly. Less attention to detail by the original owners.

The washers are standard stainless steel fender washers, available from several suppliers in quantity but not as easy to find in small numbers. Yes, they are made by punching them out of a strip or sheet of the correct thickness of stainless steel which leaves a very small curved edge on one side and a sharp edge on the stamped side. The two sides are quite easy to differentiate by feel.