Icodome is pleased to announce that we are starting a pilot venture to modify certain model Nikon DSLR to full monochrome capability. This is a very delicate and time consuming procedure adding at least two magnitudes of complexity over the usual IR DSLR modification. To keep prices manageable we will be performing this modification on the early Nikon D40/50/60/70/80 line of cameras which are quite affordable at this time. Despite their smaller 7 -10 megapixel APS sized sensors compared to current DSLRs, the 2-3x in real resolution gain by shooting in monochrome vs Bayer colour and the large pixel sizes give significant advantages to applications like narrowband DSLR imaging.
We are still field testing our 3 converted DSLRs and waiting for a break in weather to do some narrowband imaging.
Meanwhile have a look at full size at this true 720nm IR monochrome image: http://dl.dropbox.co...nD40IR720nm.jpg
Pricing will be approx camera body costs + $250 which equate to about $450-$650 depending on camera model. This price is actually lower than what some are charging for simple IR modification. I will not modify your camera for fear of damaging your sensor but sell preconverted, tested units. That way I assume all costs of failures and you as the consumer are protected.
Icodome now converting DSLRs to true monochrome
Started by
Jim Chung
, Jan 05 2013 08:31 AM
86 replies to this topic
#1
Jim Chung
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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:31 AM
#2
Jim Chung
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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:35 AM
Quick comparison between conventional colour image converted to grayscale (left) and monochrome modified DSLR image (right). Note the increased sharpness (resolution) and significant lack of chroma noise allowing camera to operate at higher ISO without sacrificing dynamic range. Also loss of Bayer layer results in one full aperture stop increase in sensitivity.
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#3
zerro1
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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:50 AM
Well that's retty cool . That looks like something I would be interested in
#4
guyroch
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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:38 AM
This is freak'in awesome.
Genius!
One question though, why Nikon over Canon?
Do you even intend to modify Canon? If yes I think I just found a reason to purchase a 5D Mk II and have it MONOfied by you guys... then send it over to JTW or CentralDS to get it cooled. I figure the total price to me would be in the $4000 range. I would pay that price for sure a mono cooled 5D Mk II.
Anyway, you are definitely on the edge here. Good work!
Guylain
Genius!
One question though, why Nikon over Canon?
Do you even intend to modify Canon? If yes I think I just found a reason to purchase a 5D Mk II and have it MONOfied by you guys... then send it over to JTW or CentralDS to get it cooled. I figure the total price to me would be in the $4000 range. I would pay that price for sure a mono cooled 5D Mk II.
Anyway, you are definitely on the edge here. Good work!
Guylain
#5
Aquatone
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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:53 PM
Looks very interesting indeed, but I also have to ask why Nikon over Canon which must be more representative of the bulk of DSLR's used in astrophotography and the accessories and software tools associated with them.
I would go for a camera modified like this in a heartbeat if it were a Canon, but the fact that all my existing accessories would be less compatible makes it of little appeal.
I would go for a camera modified like this in a heartbeat if it were a Canon, but the fact that all my existing accessories would be less compatible makes it of little appeal.
#6
Jim Chung
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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:02 PM
As you can imagine development costs to reach this stage of reproducible and consistent conversion success is rather high and we have quite an assortment of dead sensors. Nikons happen to be easier to work with then Canons in this regard and although we are also Canon people, we've been pleasantly surprised at how much more ergonomic the Nikon models are to shoot with. We're trying also to keeps costs relatively low to encourage the hobbyists that we cater to. Even if we could convert a Canon 5D Mk 3 would we be willing to chance a $3500 camera and risk ruining it?
#7
guyroch
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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:30 PM
I can certainly understand your point of view. I think it's pretty awesome what you're doing. One day you'll have the process nailed and you'll be able to have both Nikon and Canon MONOfied with a blindfold and both hands tied behind your back 
Keep up the outstanding R&D.
Guylain
Keep up the outstanding R&D.
Guylain
#8
guyroch
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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:24 PM
The more I think about it the more I want one; plus I really want to support your effort and R&D.
Do you have a D80 ready?
I would be interested only if I can see/inspect a 10 minute dark frame. I'm not really concerned about hot pixels or noise, I can process those out. But I am concerned about amp glow. Some older Nikon models were notorious for amp glow so if the MONOfied D80 has some I'm not interested... but if the 10 minute dark frame shows no sign of amp glow I'll buy MONOfied D80 immediately.
Let me know.
Guylain
Do you have a D80 ready?
I would be interested only if I can see/inspect a 10 minute dark frame. I'm not really concerned about hot pixels or noise, I can process those out. But I am concerned about amp glow. Some older Nikon models were notorious for amp glow so if the MONOfied D80 has some I'm not interested... but if the 10 minute dark frame shows no sign of amp glow I'll buy MONOfied D80 immediately.
Let me know.
Guylain
#9
Jim Chung
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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:42 PM
Hi Guylain,
Thanks for expressing your enthusiasm and support. I think the D80 will probably still exhibit too much amp glow much like my old Canon 20D. I'm looking at converting a D90 which is significantly more advanced than the D80, appears to have nearly no amp glow from reports and also features the very useful live view ability. If it goes well I'll make sure to keep it for you.
regards,
Jim
Thanks for expressing your enthusiasm and support. I think the D80 will probably still exhibit too much amp glow much like my old Canon 20D. I'm looking at converting a D90 which is significantly more advanced than the D80, appears to have nearly no amp glow from reports and also features the very useful live view ability. If it goes well I'll make sure to keep it for you.
regards,
Jim
#10
guyroch
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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:59 PM
I much prefer the D90 over the D80 that's for sure.
In that case, would you be willing to do a D7000 instead? The new D7000 body is about $825; not sure how much a used one would go for.
I just ran a test with my D90 and D7000 for a 10 minute dark frame and the D7000 is night and day compared to the D90.
Sorry to be throwing you curve balls like this but the D7000 has next to no hot pixels, it's an awesome camera.
I know you said you would not modify a customer's camera but look at my signature, I have DSLRs coming out my ying-yang. How confident are you in your process? I'm thinking I might be willing to risk the D7000 for a MONOfied mod. This would split the risk between both of us.
Send me a PM with your email if you want to take this off line; I'm good either way.
Guylain
In that case, would you be willing to do a D7000 instead? The new D7000 body is about $825; not sure how much a used one would go for.
I just ran a test with my D90 and D7000 for a 10 minute dark frame and the D7000 is night and day compared to the D90.
Sorry to be throwing you curve balls like this but the D7000 has next to no hot pixels, it's an awesome camera.
I know you said you would not modify a customer's camera but look at my signature, I have DSLRs coming out my ying-yang. How confident are you in your process? I'm thinking I might be willing to risk the D7000 for a MONOfied mod. This would split the risk between both of us.
Send me a PM with your email if you want to take this off line; I'm good either way.
Guylain
#11
s58y
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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:09 PM
Interesting development. As soon as we get mirrorless cameras that support tethered shooting and mono plus anti-alias conversion, along with cooling, we'll have a viable substitute for dedicated astro CCD cameras.
I guess, we'll also need low profile filter wheels that can fit between the camera mount and the usual SLR camera lenses.
I guess, we'll also need low profile filter wheels that can fit between the camera mount and the usual SLR camera lenses.
#12
Jim Chung
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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:35 PM
First light under terrible sky conditions, windy with hazy clouds but the first clearish night in nearly 3 months in Toronto.
no flats, no darks, just some curves in PS
full scale here: http://dl.dropbox.co...monoHa copy.jpg
A conventional colour camera would only produce a signal in the red channel and would be only either 1/3 the resolution or 1/3 the scale. Much less nebulosity would be apparent after only 30 minutes. I need much longer subs and more of them to iron out the background noise.
no flats, no darks, just some curves in PS
full scale here: http://dl.dropbox.co...monoHa copy.jpg
A conventional colour camera would only produce a signal in the red channel and would be only either 1/3 the resolution or 1/3 the scale. Much less nebulosity would be apparent after only 30 minutes. I need much longer subs and more of them to iron out the background noise.
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#13
Jim Chung
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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:19 AM
This time with dark subtraction, better noise control:
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#14
Heine DK
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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:36 PM
Amazing news and an amazing prize for the mod. Great work.
I'm very happy with my Nikon D700 which gave me good results with AP for a non modified camera. I would love to have a D700 monofied, but I'm afraid Nikon put up a big hurdle for filter removal for recent models due to an IR LED/sensor checking shutter timing. Removing the cut filter opens up not just for h-alpha but also for the signal from the IR LED. This might be removable by dark frames, acting a bit like amp glow on the old models. I'm not sure if this goes for all the newer Nikons.
I'm very happy with my Nikon D700 which gave me good results with AP for a non modified camera. I would love to have a D700 monofied, but I'm afraid Nikon put up a big hurdle for filter removal for recent models due to an IR LED/sensor checking shutter timing. Removing the cut filter opens up not just for h-alpha but also for the signal from the IR LED. This might be removable by dark frames, acting a bit like amp glow on the old models. I'm not sure if this goes for all the newer Nikons.
#15
Jim Chung
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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:11 PM
Heine,
That's very interesting information, do you have a website that discusses this issue? Does your D700 have this feature (and you do mean D700 and not D7000, right?).
I just successfully converted a D90 today but of course despite the weather forecast it's cloudy tonight so I can't astro test it. Here's a 10 minute dark taken at room temperature:
http://dl.dropbox.co...arkNikonD90.jpg
That's very interesting information, do you have a website that discusses this issue? Does your D700 have this feature (and you do mean D700 and not D7000, right?).
I just successfully converted a D90 today but of course despite the weather forecast it's cloudy tonight so I can't astro test it. Here's a 10 minute dark taken at room temperature:
http://dl.dropbox.co...arkNikonD90.jpg
#16
guyroch
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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:07 AM
Heine,
That's very interesting information, do you have a website that discusses this issue? Does your D700 have this feature (and you do mean D700 and not D7000, right?).
I just successfully converted a D90 today but of course despite the weather forecast it's cloudy tonight so I can't astro test it. Here's a 10 minute dark taken at room temperature:
http://dl.dropbox.co...arkNikonD90.jpg
Interesting progress. The 10 minute D90 dark frame is showing sings of amp glow (or light infiltration) towards the bottom right of the frame
Guylain
#17
guyroch
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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:42 AM
Actually Jim it looks more like light leak rather than amp glow. Did you take your 10 minute dark frame in a dark room or a bright room?
Guylain
Guylain
#18
Jim Chung
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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:51 AM
You nailed it. I just placed the screw cap over the lens opening in the body and put it face down on a couch in my dark living room ... which obviously is not perfectly dark. Probably a very slight leak in the cap. I just wanted to demo that the D90 doesn't appear to suffer from leakage from any onboard IR LED.
#19
Jim Chung
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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:52 PM
I'm dying here in Toronto for some clear weather. Although it's going to be 13C tomorrow which is pretty unprecedented in the middle of winter, the warm weather encourages cloudiness. So I haven't been able to astro test the D90 but I did take this image of my son's pet rabbit preparing to attack after being rudely awakened.
"Run away, run away .... run away" (Python's Holy Grail)
http://dl.dropbox.co...ngrabbitB&W.jpg (full size)
"Run away, run away .... run away" (Python's Holy Grail)
http://dl.dropbox.co...ngrabbitB&W.jpg (full size)
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#20
Lightning
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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:59 AM
The Nikon D5100 would be a better choice for this than the D7000 since it's the same chip but a cheaper camera.
This is awesome work Jim, I hope you can make it into a success business-wise.
[Edit]Given that's you're pulling everything out, a cold-finger cooler would be ace too.[/edit]
Cheers,
Cam
This is awesome work Jim, I hope you can make it into a success business-wise.
[Edit]Given that's you're pulling everything out, a cold-finger cooler would be ace too.[/edit]
Cheers,
Cam
#21
Jim Chung
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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:46 AM
Cam,
Thanks and that's a good call for somebody who isn't familiar with all the different Nikon models. Apparently Adorama in NYC is liquidating their D5100 for only $419 (NEW!) to make room for the new D5200. But like you said, the D5100 has the great 16 MP sensor of the D7000 and the articulated LCD screen is really a back saver for astroimaging. For Canon people this is equivalent to the T3i.
Thanks and that's a good call for somebody who isn't familiar with all the different Nikon models. Apparently Adorama in NYC is liquidating their D5100 for only $419 (NEW!) to make room for the new D5200. But like you said, the D5100 has the great 16 MP sensor of the D7000 and the articulated LCD screen is really a back saver for astroimaging. For Canon people this is equivalent to the T3i.
#22
guyroch
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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:19 PM
Cam,
Thanks and that's a good call for somebody who isn't familiar with all the different Nikon models. Apparently Adorama in NYC is liquidating their D5100 for only $419 (NEW!) to make room for the new D5200. But like you said, the D5100 has the great 16 MP sensor of the D7000 and the articulated LCD screen is really a back saver for astroimaging. For Canon people this is equivalent to the T3i.
I'll tell you what Jim... at $419 for a new D5100 body I'm giving you the green light to go get one and modify it. If you can MONOfy a new D5100 with success I'll purchase your first D5100 monofied camera as long as the monofied camera does not show any sign of amp glow on a 10 minute dark frame post modification; that's my only requirement for a D5100.
Send me a PM and we can talk $.
Guylain
#23
Lightning
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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:06 PM
There's a chance I may win my bid on ebay for one too. Even if I don't get it I'll be aiming to pick up this camera for a while yet - it's awesome. Once I get one I'm keen to send it to you for modification.
Question, does this remove the micro-lens array? Given that you gain a full f-stop it's probably irrelevant, but I'm just curious.
Cheers,
Cam
Question, does this remove the micro-lens array? Given that you gain a full f-stop it's probably irrelevant, but I'm just curious.
Cheers,
Cam
#24
Jim Chung
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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:35 AM
Yes, the microlens layer is also removed.
#25
Jim Chung
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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:52 AM
Well, it was supposed to be clear last night and then the forecast changed rapidly and it wasnt. And no prospects for at least a week.
SO the only new news I can offer is that I going to offer my current stock for sale:
Nikon D50 with original box and all original accessories and 2 extra batteries with 17200 shutter actuations. $425
Nikon D40 with only 4800 actuations but no accessories, one battery. $375
Nikon D90 with original box and accessories, 12000 actuations. $650
These cameras have no glass covering the mono modified sensor so care must be taken to keep the camera body sealed between uses with body cap (The D90 does have the vibrating dust reduction window present so the sensor is protected) Autofocus is not calibrated. Must shoot in RAW and extract data without color interpolation via open source software such as dcraw.
Shipping & handling will be extra, about $35-40 throughout North America via Canada Post.
The cameras currently work perfectly .... but they are at least 8 years old with an unknown history of previous ownership (meaning who knows how they were previously treated). There is no warranty implied, this is an opportunity to try true digital B&W imaging at a small cost, a tiny fraction of the $8000 Leica Monochrom or if you can find them the $5000 Kodak 760M. You can check out my feedback on Amart to know I am an honest and ethical vendor.
SO the only new news I can offer is that I going to offer my current stock for sale:
Nikon D50 with original box and all original accessories and 2 extra batteries with 17200 shutter actuations. $425
Nikon D40 with only 4800 actuations but no accessories, one battery. $375
Nikon D90 with original box and accessories, 12000 actuations. $650
These cameras have no glass covering the mono modified sensor so care must be taken to keep the camera body sealed between uses with body cap (The D90 does have the vibrating dust reduction window present so the sensor is protected) Autofocus is not calibrated. Must shoot in RAW and extract data without color interpolation via open source software such as dcraw.
Shipping & handling will be extra, about $35-40 throughout North America via Canada Post.
The cameras currently work perfectly .... but they are at least 8 years old with an unknown history of previous ownership (meaning who knows how they were previously treated). There is no warranty implied, this is an opportunity to try true digital B&W imaging at a small cost, a tiny fraction of the $8000 Leica Monochrom or if you can find them the $5000 Kodak 760M. You can check out my feedback on Amart to know I am an honest and ethical vendor.
CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.
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