Well I did it....approached the neighbors
#1
Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:19 PM
i dealt with it all last winter muttering and using light shades.. as the leaves fell this year, my second observing, i realized i had to say something. its downright ridiculous. the conversaion had some good points : "let us see what we can do over the next few days".. whereupon i kept making the point about shining where you need it not into the sky... after a while she said things like "we all have to deal with something.." and "cant you add some living room shades?" . i explained then i do astronomy. they explained that they NEED this light. i pointed out you should be able to lightup your property as much as you want without shining it at me sideways, UP a hill, 1/2 acre away. they either didnt get it or want to. i maybe talked too much.. i can be quite a pita logical person and perhaps didnt need to argue so much as they DID say theyd look into it. I mentioned the parshield light shades of which i happened to have a couple. she seemed to hear that but im not sure. I just didnt want them to change to lower wattage as i explained that wasnt the problem exactly.
this is their place last winter. I now have some better, thicker 6' tall x 16' long canvas tarps ive hung , but just walking to get behind them is ridiculous i have to sheild my eyes its so blinding.
so i just went down and dropped the box off of two parshield shades at their house with a note to please use them, and if they need to buy some different ones id be glad to buy them.
BTW i got my shades at starrynightlights.com , and they were pretty expensive for what they were (about $50 for two shades delivered!). these neighbors have square lights of some sort, not the typical outdoor light. any recommendations on where to buy something more affordably? also starrynightlights took me literally about a MONTH to get them delivered. they were actually for a different neighbor but they finally took care of it without the need of the shields. i dont know whats going on with that business, it was my first experience there.
thanks for any tips on where to buy, or moral support. advise on how to deal effectively with people would probably be lost on me.
#2
Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:06 PM
I wouldn't use your astronomy hobby as a defense, at least not a main one. If the lights are dusk to dawn (on all night) you should probably say that it interferes with your sleep or something. Inviting them over to observe may help if they are inclined to that sort of thing. If they enjoy what they're seeing they may notice how much of a problem their lights are for you and that can go in your favor.
Also look up lighting ordinances in your town / city. Many have a "light trespass" ordinance of some kind.
"cant you add some living room shades?"
This quote kind of makes me feel like they won't be very cooperative. Whenever I hear/read this sort of sentiment I always imagine myself playing extremely loud music all night long, and if people complained I would say "how about buying some earplugs?". Maybe you could say something like this to your neighbors but in a more polite manner.
#3
Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:21 PM
(1) All outdoor lighting shall have full cutoff-type fixtures (See below.) Cutoffs shall shield bulbs from visibility and may consist of internal baffles or reflectors or external panels or other mechanisms.
(a) General site lighting shall not exceed 90ยบ, the horizontal plane of bottom of lamp fixture. No uplighting is allowed; parking, security and aesthetic lighting must shine downward.
(b) Spotlights used to illuminate buildings, signs or specific site amenities/features shall be targeted on such objects so as to prevent direct uplighting. Cutoffs shall limit lighting to a forty-five-degree angle above the horizontal plane.
© Upward search or spotlighting of the sky for entertainment or advertising purposes is prohibited.
good to know i have some backup if we cant get something amicable going.
thanks for the response!
#4
Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:22 PM
#5
Posted 01 November 2013 - 04:02 PM
the tarps, hardware and cabling was maybe $100 all told and it works, but they have so much uplighting it lights up the 80' tall trees all around which i cant shield. that affects my viewing as well.. its quite dark around here when those lights are off.
#6
Posted 01 November 2013 - 04:44 PM
I am going to have to remember this argument for sure! Best one I have heard of yet.This quote kind of makes me feel like they won't be very cooperative. Whenever I hear/read this sort of sentiment I always imagine myself playing extremely loud music all night long, and if people complained I would say "how about buying some earplugs?".
Wasn't there a hot sauce factory that has to install things to mitigate the smell? If the lawsuit goes through, and the smell must be mitigated, this could be the groundworks for using your own property without trespass of other people's "things", whether it be smell, light, noise, etcetera.
#7
Posted 01 November 2013 - 04:46 PM
I know how you're feeling about this. Your neighbor has illegal lighting and YOU would have to foot the bill for it. But if you want the issue resolved I think this is the quickest and friendliest way to go about it. What would you rather be without? A small amount of time/money to install the shields or a backyard that is impossible for astronomy?
If all else fails you can go through the legal system. You are very fortunate to have a legal basis for your claim. This of course depends on the mechanism of enforcement, if any.
#8
Posted 01 November 2013 - 04:48 PM
I am going to have to remember this argument for sure! Best one I have heard of yet.This quote kind of makes me feel like they won't be very cooperative. Whenever I hear/read this sort of sentiment I always imagine myself playing extremely loud music all night long, and if people complained I would say "how about buying some earplugs?".
Wasn't there a hot sauce factory that has to install things to mitigate the smell? If the lawsuit goes through, and the smell must be mitigated, this could be the groundworks for using your own property without trespass of other people's "things", whether it be smell, light, noise, etcetera.
You're right. It *is* trespassing. The problem is most people are afraid of the dark from an evolutionary standpoint and see light as GOOD. In most cases extraneous light has effects that aren't readily noticeable to the general public, whereas loud music and offensive smells do.
#9
Posted 01 November 2013 - 05:30 PM
Our county includes NOISE, SMELL, SMOKE as trespass items, but not light. Politically, it should be relatively easy to amend nuisance codes to include light.
After all it is your property.
Thanks god, my neighbors keep their lights off at night.
Now if I can just get the city of Wenatchee to do the same!!
#10
Posted 01 November 2013 - 06:00 PM
i called the building inspectors office today and explained the situation that i was hoping to resolve myself.. but he did give me the name and address of who to contact via email in their dept. if i have to do that, thats all it will take for a "written" request and they'll check it out. hopefully won't get to that point, probably won't. they also said thud try keeping them off more often which I've noticed right away.. good sign.
#11
Posted 01 November 2013 - 07:31 PM
I did offer to pay the full amount of any shades as i said already, so hopefully they will take me up on it!
I'm talking about installation. They may be more inclined to cooperate with you if you either DIY or pay for them to be installed.
#12
Posted 01 November 2013 - 11:56 PM
#13
Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:13 AM
#14
Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:12 AM
Follow-up by way of thanks for their kind consideration is a good and useful gesture, which should reinforce their good behaviour.
+1.
#15
Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:05 AM
Don't screw it up!
#16
Posted 04 November 2013 - 06:57 AM
#17
Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:46 PM
For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...
#18
Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:57 AM
For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...
Actually, it would be better to behave like a mature adult and not try to "get back at them".
Such an approach is simply CHILDISH.
#19
Posted 05 November 2013 - 02:00 PM
#20
Posted 05 November 2013 - 02:29 PM
For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...
Actually, it would be better to behave like a mature adult and not try to "get back at them".
Such an approach is simply CHILDISH.
I'm pretty sure that was a joke.
#21
Posted 05 November 2013 - 03:19 PM
For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...
Actually, it would be better to behave like a mature adult and not try to "get back at them".
Such an approach is simply CHILDISH.
I'm pretty sure that was a joke.
I'm pretty sure you just made my case for me!
#22
Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:14 PM
Geoff
#23
Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:20 PM
For the first part they'll just call the cops if someone plays music at night. Better play some annoying animal sounds like an owl.they asked you to buy some shade for your windows so their light does not inter your house ... mmmh ... maybe rent some stadium sized speakers, pointed in their direction, play the "coming of the valkyres" at full blast every night, all night, and when they complain ... ask them to buy some ear plugs ... or even better, rent some of these giant chicken frying search lights they use for events, and shine them at their house ... tell them, you need this to feel safe, after all, no burglar will come to your house since they risk being incinerated by these lights ... and then ask them to buy some shades or curtains ...
Actually, it would be better to behave like a mature adult and not try to "get back at them".
Such an approach is simply CHILDISH.
I suppose you're right about this approach being CHILDISH. Some people might not even notice an owl. But when your windows are trembling from elephant roars at 1 AM you might rethink attracting wild animals from whatever nearest city that has a zoo with your lights.
#24
Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:16 PM
Geoff
#25
Posted 05 November 2013 - 08:51 PM
sweet. it turns out that they are in clear and full violation of what i just found for our small city:
(1) All outdoor lighting shall have full cutoff-type fixtures (See below.) Cutoffs shall shield bulbs from visibility and may consist of internal baffles or reflectors or external panels or other mechanisms.
(a) General site lighting shall not exceed 90ยบ, the horizontal plane of bottom of lamp fixture. No uplighting is allowed; parking, security and aesthetic lighting must shine downward.
(b) Spotlights used to illuminate buildings, signs or specific site amenities/features shall be targeted on such objects so as to prevent direct uplighting. Cutoffs shall limit lighting to a forty-five-degree angle above the horizontal plane.
© Upward search or spotlighting of the sky for entertainment or advertising purposes is prohibited.
good to know i have some backup if we cant get something amicable going. thanks for the response!
How is this enforced, or what is the process to enforce these regulations?