176 replies to this topic

[Leonardo Priami]

Right Mike!

[Leonardo Priami]

Nobody can say somethings about illumination performance of the 106EDIII vs. FSQ106 Fluorite?
Takahashi speak about an improvment of illumination...

[edif300]

Leonardo,
I am sorry for my late answer. Even if I received your question via pm I think that my answer will be more useful here.

In the FSQ-106(N) the relative radiance of field illumination drops in a straight line after a 100% illumination, so is may appear a hot spot in the center of the field and especially if you haven't calibrated the image correctly by master flat. I think that this no means that your FSQ-106N has a problem...
If I remember well 6 mm are 100% illuminated in the FSQ-106(n) instead of about 18mm in the FSQ-106ED. But the biggest improvement in the FSQ-106ED is that the fall in field illumination is a nice progressive curve.

Edited by edif300, 06 September 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[edif300]

My FSQ-106EDX has serial number 08191. Here a picture of me setup, AIS U16M, Astrodon GenII filters:

 

https://www.dropbox....emma2M.jpg?dl=0

 

Corner and central cutouts from 4096x4096 image, using a script in Pixinsight:
https://www.dropbox....6x4096.jpg?dl=0

 

A raw fit:
https://www.dropbox....w FITS.fit?dl=0

 

A single flat:
https://www.dropbox....w FITS.fit?dl=0

 

 

Hope this helps.

Best regards
Iñaki

Edited by edif300, 06 September 2014 - 08:43 AM.

[edif300]

[bilgebay]

Hi folks,

Today, I was making a little research for a friend on Starizona website and noticed that they now have an off the shelf solution for the FSQ106 and FSQ85 scopes, in line with my solution shown in this thread. I'm very happy with mine since the beginning and will not be buying this new motor but just wanted to share this with you guys.

[dawziecat]

I don't want to make a lot of noise about this but do wish to submit the following for all seeking to motorize Tak focusers.

 

I have both an FSQ106EDXIII with the newer 4" "Type B" focuser and a TOA-150 with the older non-B version of the 4" focuser.

 

I purchased a FT "Focus Boss" focusing system planning on motorizing both focusers using the same controller and two motors.

 

I got inconsistent results (occasionally worked but usually failed). I finally traced this to the the failure of the TAK focusers to actually move quite despite the motors turning their shafts. I repeat, this was two focusers and after trying three motors!

 

Trying to figure out what on earth was going on,  I received a private communication from a stranger who seemed to understand what was going on a lot better than the seller of the system.

 

In a nutshell, do not "sideload" these focusers. By that is meant do not drive the focus shaft through an off-center spur gear as many focus motors use.

Doing so has the effect of pushing the assembly apart slightly and causing the turning shaft to not actually move the focuser.

After trying three motors (the seller was very cooperative in sending them), I gave up on this kind of motor for both my 4" Tak focusers. In the couple of months I tried these motors, they only worked a couple of times. The next night, despite not even touching the equipment, it again failed utterly to move the focuser. The software shows the focus point changing, the motor runs, the shaft on the focuser turns but the focus drawtube does not actually move. I will have an FLI focuser soon which is an entirely different system and this problem will be bypassed.

 

In summary, sideloading both my 4" Tak focusers with a motor using an off-center spur gear to drive the shaft was a total failure with both of my Tak focusers. AFAICT, this is the type of motor shown in Sedat's post.

 

I am not sure, but I believe Robofocus motors do not use an off-center spur? If not, they should not cause this rather strange behaviour.

[Starhawk]

Back on the focuser track, and a sort of basic question- are all of the post FSQ-106ED scopes purely focuser mods?  The housings look different, but is the only change between them to the Focuser, and not to the glass?

 

In that case, it would seem a separate scope and Focuser purchase option would make a lot of sense.  If the Tak Focuser is on the order of 25% of the cost of the scope, then this really would make a big difference in getting an FSQ-106ED, and the focuser style question would get pushed outside of the optics module. That would be far more manufacturing friendly on that end, and users could get whatever focuser made sense for their application.

 

I found the Tak guys to be very approachable at the Texas Nauticical Repair table at ASAE last year.  I'm wondering about exploring this topic with them to see what they think of it.

 

-Rich

[bilgebay]

Hi Rich,
What you are suggesting had been discussed earlier in this thread and if my memory serves correctly, there are, now, some options to fit a FT focuser to the FSQ106.

 

I had a chance to see the innards of EDXIII and ED with Captains Wheel. Optically they are identical.... please see page 3 of this thread onwards....

 

I guess the FT option costs one grand. TN either has to sell the FSQs in bobtail configuration, i.e. no focuser attached for $ 4K or has to offer an option to the buyer to buy the scope either with a Tak or FT focuser... buying the scope for approx $ 5K with Tak focuser and replacing it with a FT focuser makes it super expensive...

 

As for Terry's point, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. This has not been my experience since Early January 2013. I have used the scope 200+ hours since then and had not a single frame out of focus. 

 

The only thing I can think of is the locking mechanism locking by itself...when I did the modification I took 2 extra steps. I removed the knob from the non-motorized side as well and fixed the locking handle in fully open position as it was very eager to lock itself even if you left it slightly engaged. I figured out I could accidentally touch it and move backwards where it will be engaged by itself. Please see the photo below.You may notice the band aid/gorilla band on the right side of the focuser to dust proof the mechanism.

 

Also if you watch this recent time lapse I put together on last week, you will notice the focus knob is missing on the other side too. Nice to see FSQ in action

 

 

Clear skies.

[bilgebay]

Found a better picture showing the removed left focuser knob

 

[bilgebay]

Please also see this thread where I'm demonstrating the accuracy and repeatability of focuser system.

 

Here is a shortcut to the video1 and video 2

[Starhawk]

Sedat,

Thanks for the reply on the optics.

It's pretty common for extremely high end systems to be completely customizable. I suppose I tend to feel that makes the most sense at the FSQ-106 level.

-Rich

[jhenderson0107]

I have mounted an FLI Atlas focuser between the stock manual focuser and the CAA on an FSQ-106EDXIII.  My DSLR reaches focus in this configuration.  

 

But, if I attempt to replace the post-CAA imaging train with the CAA Reducer Coupling(TRDC0106)+Reducer QE .73 (TSQ106RD) + TCA1020 + QE Reducer->CA35 Adapter+ Wide Mouth T-Ring(TMW004), my DSLR is still back-focused even with the stock focuser and Atlas fully retracted, regardless that the DSLR focal plane is precisely 72.5mm downstream of the QE reducer as required.  

 

The FLI Atlas consumes 32.7 to 41.6 backfocus, which exceeds the 30mm travel of the standard focuser.  So the Reducer QE is (mis)positioned 2.7-11.6mm further downstream compared to its max position when using the stock focuser alone, as designed by Takahashi.  But, is there any solution to allow use of the QE reducer in conjunction with the Atlas short of replacing the stock focuser with a custom barrel from PreciseParts.com?  I would prefer to leave the stock focuser attached so that I can conveniently use the scope with eyepieces and for imaging without the reducer.  

[Starhawk]

Well, I tried broaching the subject of bobtail Takahashis and alternate focusers with TNR and Takahashi at ASAE.  It sounded like they are mulling it over.  The standardization concept with modularity seems to cause difficulties for them.  I'm not sure exactly what is happening behind the scenes- I had the impression it wouldn't bother them a bit to have to support a case where every telescope was unique and so was every component available for use with it.

 

Alternatively, the other question I heard asked was if they could arrange for factory level service in the US so things didn't have to go all the way back to Japan for service (and as I type, this, I am struck by how that does beg the question of what the point of having a distributor is if they can't do that).

 

So, we shall see...

 

-Rich

[rainycityastro]

I have mounted an FLI Atlas focuser between the stock manual focuser and the CAA on an FSQ-106EDXIII.  My DSLR reaches focus in this configuration.  

 

But, if I attempt to replace the post-CAA imaging train with the CAA Reducer Coupling(TRDC0106)+Reducer QE .73 (TSQ106RD) + TCA1020 + QE Reducer->CA35 Adapter+ Wide Mouth T-Ring(TMW004), my DSLR is still back-focused even with the stock focuser and Atlas fully retracted, regardless that the DSLR focal plane is precisely 72.5mm downstream of the QE reducer as required.  

 

The FLI Atlas consumes 32.7 to 41.6 backfocus, which exceeds the 30mm travel of the standard focuser.  So the Reducer QE is (mis)positioned 2.7-11.6mm further downstream compared to its max position when using the stock focuser alone, as designed by Takahashi.  But, is there any solution to allow use of the QE reducer in conjunction with the Atlas short of replacing the stock focuser with a custom barrel from PreciseParts.com?  I would prefer to leave the stock focuser attached so that I can conveniently use the scope with eyepieces and for imaging without the reducer.  

What about leaving the stock focuser in place but replacing the Atlas focuser with something like this: http://starlightinst...&product_id=356 ?

 

You can use this at native F5 or with a reducer. The stock focuser is strong enough to hold any DSLR without flexing.

[jhenderson0107]

rainycityastro - 

 

Thanks for your reply.  Your suggestion would certainly work but I purchased the Atlas in anticipation of using a CCD with filter wheel in the future.  I could have my cake and eat it too if PreciseParts would make an adapter similar to the CAA Reducer Coupling(TRDC0106) but with a longer barrel to reclaim an additional ~30mm of back focus.  The Reducer QE .73 (TSQ106RD) would then be back-set sufficiently to allow infinity focus.  But, they were unwilling to make this custom adapter.  

[KGoodwin]

Perhaps a local machine shop would be willing, although I suspect there may be a technical/mechanical reason making it difficult if PP won't make it.

[Starhawk]

There is a very precise space reservation inside the FSQ series telescopes for focuser draw tube travel. It's designed to be stiff for the optical alugnment, and to let a camera detector with filters or whatever image train you are using get very close to the rear element, which leaves less room for focuser travel.  Conceivably a focuser could be built with more travel, but it would mean optical accessories like the extender-Q and the reducer/flattener would have to somehow mount inside the draw tube.  Not impossible- but it starts to point to a system where the camera and accessories are stationary and the telescope OTA is moved relative to them (like an SLR camera).  That sort of setup does solve certain problems since the OTA weight would always be the same, but isnt very portable.

 

-Rich 

Edited by Starhawk, 02 December 2014 - 09:56 AM.

[jhenderson0107]

There is a very precise space reservation inside the FSQ series telescopes for focuser draw tube travel. It's designed to be stiff for the optical alugnment, and to let a camera detector with filters or whatever image train you are using get very close to the rear element, which leaves less room for focuser travel.  Conceivably a focuser could be built with more travel, but it would mean optical accessories like the extender-Q and the reducer/flattener would have to somehow mount inside the draw tube.  Not impossible- but it starts to point to a system where the camera and accessories are stationary and the telescope OTA is moved relative to them (like an SLR camera).  That sort of setup does solve certain problems since the OTA weight would always be the same, but isnt very portable.

 

-Rich 

Both the Tak CAA and /FLI Atlas have large (> 2") , unobstructed inner optical cavities.  So when cascaded, there is plenty of room for the CAA Reducer Coupling(TRDC0106)+Reducer QE .73 (TSQ106RD) to be positioned within to reclaim backfocus.  Regardless, it appears the only practical options are to have a local shop fab the required adapter or to abandon the use of the focal reducer with a DSLR.  So close - I think positioning the reducer just 15mm further upstream would have been sufficient!

[jbalsam]

I am planning to do exactly what jhenderson is talking about within the next month: use an Atlas to focus the 106EDXIII with or without the reducer in place. I will be using the 0.72x "645" reducer, not the 0.73x version, but I think the challenge will be the same. I will be machining my own adapters though, so I'm not beholded to what Precise Parts is willing to do =)

 

The camera and filter wheel I plan to use have a total backfocus of about 48mm, which is about ~8mm less than most DSLR's (I think Canon's are 56mm as I recall). So that might mean I can leave the stock Tak focuser on there. Every other time I've done something like this on other scopes I have removed the stock focuser just to get rid of any potential for flexure. I might do that here if it's not too challenging. I don't have the Tak yet, so I'm not sure what will be required as far as machining in order to get rid of the stock focuser.

 

EDIT: As you just mentioned in your last post, jhenderson, sometimes it is necessary to make adapters that allow the reducers to fit inside of some other part (i.e. in the Atlas). I did that very recently in order to use an AP 0.75x reducer with an Atlas and a Stellarvue SV115. Sometimes it's the only way to make the system work.

Edited by jbalsam, 02 December 2014 - 11:26 AM.

[manoss27]

Hi,
I am owner of the Takahashi 106ED and i am serious thinking to change the original focuser with Feather touch. When i was looking on the net i found this thread finally have someone install the feather touch focuser? if yes can give us a feedback about? also someone who knows which is the back focus  to get in focus from the end of the feather touch focuser?

 

Thank you for your time.

[hytham]

Hi,
I am owner of the Takahashi 106ED and i am serious thinking to change the original focuser with Feather touch. When i was looking on the net i found this thread finally have someone install the feather touch focuser? if yes can give us a feedback about? also someone who knows which is the back focus  to get in focus from the end of the feather touch focuser?

 

Thank you for your time.

 

Hi Manoss27,

I have the Feathertouch focuser and it has been fantastic. I have only had the chance to use it with my reducer in F3.65, but not in F5 configuration. I am hoping to use it this summer in its native form

From the end of the focuser using the following:

Focuser -> M72 adapter feather touch adapter -> Takahashi reducer coupling -> .73x reducer -> 28mm adapter -> filter wheel -> ccd

 

If I remember correctly it requires approximately 1.0cm -1.5cm to reach focus. There is plenty of room left.

The focuser is excellent and is far better than the Takahashi focuser and easily handles my equipment without any issues. I carry an FLI ML16803, FLI CFW4-5 with 5 50mm square filters and there is no flex in the draw tube at all. The rotator is also extremely smooth and wonderful to use.

[manoss27]

Thank you hytham for your feedback,

 

finally i decide to buy the FT focuser but i wonder if the FT with extend draw tube FTF3545B-A fit on the scope and don't hit the crystal on the back of the telescope also hytham can you measure the length of A35-503-FSQ106ED adapter and tell us exactly how much it is?

Edited by manoss27, 11 January 2015 - 08:06 AM.

[mmalik]

 

Thanks to Wayne Schroeder of FeatherTouch, here is what an...

•FSQ-106EDXIII...
•A35-503-FSQ106ED...
•FTF3515B-A...

...integration looks like; pretty impressive! ONLY now if Takahashi would also offer one out of the box? Will try contacting Art of TNR; your support will be greatly appreciated. Regards

Sedat and all, I have heard back from Art of TNR, he is going to see if Takahashi will consider this; this is what Art said, "I will replay it to Takahashi". Regards

 

 
I've been out of touch on this thread for a while, I wonder what became of Takahashi offering FeatherTouch focuser out-of-the-box? Has anyone spoke with Art of TNR recently? Any updates on that front will be appreciated. Regards


FYI: For those interested in modifying a DSLR, SONY a7S mod info here...

Edited by mmalik, 17 January 2015 - 04:40 AM.

[AnakChan]

Just necro-posting but I don't think I've ever seen an FSQ106ED in Japan without the captain's wheel. Even if one were to buy a current FSQ106ED model in Japan it comes with one. Are there variants of local vs exported models?